mommy2kane wrote:nameless_5r wrote:I think that Schutzhund is an awesome training tool for bullies as long as the biting is removed from the curriculum.
Then it's no longer Schutzhund.
x2, without bitework Schutzhund would be OB and tracking......which there are already competitions for.
This is my two cents-
I was a lot like you nameless_5r, when I first learned about Schutzhund/Ring sport etc, it was un-thinkable to have teach a Pit Bull to bite a human. And surely any well bred Pit Bull would never do that!
But once I learned more and really got into the sport, I learned how wrong that view is.
but i also noticed that the dogs are used as protection dogs were a man wearing a thick padded suit is bitten by the dog.
As said before, a suit is used in Ring, not Schutzhund. And I think an important point to make is that (in most cases) Schutzhund dogs are not protection dogs, they are sport dogs.
The way I (and my dog) view bite work is a big game. The sleeve is the same as a tug toy, he is not biting the decoy, he is biting a toy that just happens to be on the decoys arm, not in his hand. Remove the sleeve and he runs up and gives kisses to the helper that he was biting a minute ago. Apollo is all about the sleeve, not the person. Which is what I want in my dog.
Some people do train for civil dogs, but I (and most Pit owners I have met) train for sport.
It is the highest level of OB and extremely important, if I can control my dog while he is in his highest drive, then I can control him in pretty much any situation.
IMO the best way to teach a dog not to bite is to teach it when it is appropriate to bite. And to obey commands no matter how high of a drive they are in.
Like this, even when completely dedicated to the bite, you can call them off.
It should take way too much work to get a bully to show any type of aggression towards a human.
I honestly think it would be nearly impossible to get my Sch trained Bully to show aggression to a person. He can be biting a decoy, then 20 minutes later be home, listening to commands from a 5 year old he has never met. My idea of a properly trained Sch dog is they should have no aggression (if human aggressive a dog should not not pass their BH), but a high drive and lots of control.
Here is a good video that shows how dogs trained to high levels in these sports but are NOT human aggressive (watch to the end)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jasonfarris ... M8CvsRvIMI