Getting out of the bullys?

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Sarah
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Re: Getting out of the bullys?

Postby Sarah » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:18 pm

FransterDoo wrote:I'm confused. Are people not allowed to love more than one breed? That's rather silly, don't you think?


That isn't what I said, and if you look back far enough, you'll see that I've mentioned that there are other breeds that I myself am interested in owning. They are other "off" breeds, though, the Shelties & BCs do not interest me.

I was merely addressing Adrianne's statement that most of the people she knew had more than one breed, in pointing out that my experience was the opposite. And that of the people I personally see, most that get another breed do so to get a more competitive dog. Certainly people can love more than one breed, but that isn't the reason why most of the people I see switching breeds do so.

And I would certainly disagree that the people I know who choose to own just one breed do so because they don't love dogs. I have a friend who owns only white Standard Poodles, and loves my dogs, she has really enjoyed the times I've allowed her to run Tess in class and once even in a trial. After she lost her Poodle bitch to cancer several months ago (very sad), and was talking about her next pup, I spent some time trying to convince her to try another color of Poodle (mostly jokingly). Sort of a gateway to owning something other than a Standard Poodle. She wouldn't do it, her new pup is a white Standard Poodle bitch. And very cute, too, I can't wait to meet her!

Another couple I know owns only Pharaoh Hounds. Though they mostly do agility (have multiple MACHs on the dogs), they also title them in conformation, obedience, rally, & lure coursing. I can't imagine them with anything but the Pharaohs. But when I introduced puppy Pirate to them, the husband took the leash and headed off with him. Took him for a walk around the arena. I was all for it, I'd like for once to have a dog that will work for other people readily, then maybe Mr. Pharaoh Hound can run Pirate on the course sometime. He's generally pretty willing to run any dog offered to him, and he's a great handler.

Another friend has Australian Shepherds. She also usually has a foster dog, who is not an Aussie, which makes it easier to know she's not keeping it. She's fostered a pit bull, but usually has some sort of small mix breed; right now she has a cute Pom mix. Once she finds a good home for her foster, she'll pull another one.

Having one particular breed that you love and want to live with doesn't mean you don't love all dogs, it just means you've found the breed that speaks to you the best, and you are happy with their company. And I don't think it's just because I only choose to hang around people who are devoted to one breed, because I'm just describing what I see around me. And yes, I do know people who own and enjoy more than one breed, some of them are my friends, but those aren't the people I'm describing right now.

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Re: Getting out of the bullys?

Postby FransterDoo » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:41 pm

Sarah wrote:And some people do choose to own more of a variety, but I will say that most commonly when someone branches out from their chosen breed, it's to get a more "competitive" breed. I know a ton of people who prefer to stick with the breed they love, though.


What this said to me was that folks have a breed they love, that is their "chosen breed" and so when they branch out it's because they want a more competitive breed.

Not because they like having different breeds of dogs or feel that a different breed is better suited for thier chosen sport or sports.

Maybe that's just the agility/obedience scene or the geographic area that you typically compete in?

While I do know a handfull of people who keep to a group (ie terriers or herders) a lot of people I compete with have very diverse dog families. And I think that many folks may tend to looking at the athletic breeds (after all, no one's looking for a pug or an english bulldog) overall, people are looking at a number of criteria and breed is just one of those.

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Re: Getting out of the bullys?

Postby Sarah » Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:02 pm

FransterDoo wrote:
Sarah wrote:And some people do choose to own more of a variety, but I will say that most commonly when someone branches out from their chosen breed, it's to get a more "competitive" breed. I know a ton of people who prefer to stick with the breed they love, though.


What this said to me was that folks have a breed they love, that is their "chosen breed" and so when they branch out it's because they want a more competitive breed.

Not because they like having different breeds of dogs or feel that a different breed is better suited for thier chosen sport or sports.



I said that "most commonly" when people branch out that it is to get a more competitive breed, which would imply that there are times when that is not the reason. And I'm curious about that last sentence of yours. How is "feel that a different breed is better suited for their chosen sport or sports" different than "more competitive breed"?

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Re: Getting out of the bullys?

Postby XDogs » Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:29 pm

Otis wrote:I've seen a few posts on here about people who have decided to gravitate away from the APBT for their sporting needs. I'm curious as to why.

Its disheartening to see people that are actually working their dogs leave the breed :sad:


Realistically, the OP's question has been answered by multiple people by now.. with the same answer.

As for my post of "you gotta be in the breed to be getting out of it" didn't mean that somebody is not loving the breed because they have dogs of other breeds in their house. I guess it was just as ... insulting a statement as saying that people who stick with a breed are not in a sport to succeed, but just to show-boat with the underdog.

I, for myself, like other dog breeds.. but not to the extent of this one. I have hardly ever felt inclined to take a stray home unless it was an APBT. Their antics, their energy, their physical attributes and their versatility speaks to me. And yes, "Jack of all trades, master of none (.. except for the obvious one)" is true.. and I prefer it over "master of one". But that is just me.

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Re: Getting out of the bullys?

Postby Adrianne » Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:52 pm

XDogs wrote: I have hardly ever felt inclined to take a stray home unless it was an APBT. Their antics, their energy, their physical attributes and their versatility speaks to me. And yes, "Jack of all trades, master of none (.. except for the obvious one)" is true.. and I prefer it over "master of one". But that is just me.

wonderful post.

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Re: Getting out of the bullys?

Postby FransterDoo » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:07 pm

Sarah wrote: How is "feel that a different breed is better suited for their chosen sport or sports" different than "more competitive breed"?


Well, folks that take a fun class with their pug or chihuahua mix or husky ( yes, we've had a bunch of "different breeds" in out intro to flyball class) may realize that those dogs can struggle in certain environments and it can create undue stress in their relationship or even be dangerous. For example, it you took a couple of fun agilty class with your pug but realized that while the drive was there, your dog couldn't handle a full course or a summer outdoor event. But you really enjoyed agility! is it, "sucks to be you" or do you get a 2nd dog primarily to play agility?

If that person buys a BC from a sport breeder, are they buying the dog to be #1 or do they enjoy the sport with both dogs and want to be able to play the game at different levels? and do they buy the BC from that sport breeder because every nice dog they get their hands on is from X, Y or Z breeder?

I guess it's individual. And each of us can point fingers at each other in a vast, vast myrad of ways about right and wrong and intentions and reasoning and all that jazz. But in the long run, we'll each continue beliving what we believe because really, when it comes down to it - there are very, very few of us who are friends in real life. It's those friends who really matter to us and whos opinions and arugments can sway us into new ways of thinking about things.

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Re: Getting out of the bullys?

Postby Sarah » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:48 pm

FransterDoo wrote:If that person buys a BC from a sport breeder, are they buying the dog to be #1 or do they enjoy the sport with both dogs and want to be able to play the game at different levels?


I would still call that getting a more competitive dog. You don't have to be striving for #1 to be competitive; if you're looking to play at a higher level, then that is in itself competitive. I myself am rather competitive in agility with my Tess. Tully is not fast enough to be competitive, which is down to my training rather than her ability, but she's a solid agility dog who is fun to play with and able to title at high levels. However, it soon became obvious in working with Tess that she has exceptional ability, and can go far. So while competition is not my big thing, I am trying to take Tess as far as she can go. Which still won't make her "#1", neither of us are quite cut out for that, but I can certainly go further with her than I can with Tully.

I know someone who has Pugs, coincidentally, and while she's enjoying working with them, she's told me that she'd like to add an SBT in a couple years in order to have a dog who is physically better suited for the sport. I would call that looking for a more competitive dog. No, of course a SBT isn't the first choice of someone looking for a more competitive breed, but coming from show type Pugs, it is more competitive. And it doesn't make it a wrong decision. If a person really does like the more competitive breed they choose to get, it's not "wrong" to get the different breed, that is an individual decision. But the decision is still driven by the desire for a more competitive breed.

And a bit of a diversion from topic, but Pugs can do really well at agility

Not the same person as the Pug person who is considering an SBT. This person already has more than one breed, but the Pug is her best agility dog.

Red Chrome

Re: Getting out of the bullys?

Postby Red Chrome » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:52 pm

OK,

When I was 11, I found a 5 month old GSD at my middle school. Begged, pleaded, cried and cried some more to take him home. He followed me from class to class and was just an awesome little dog, waited for me at lunch. One day, he wasnt there. I got home from school and ran in the house telling my mom, "We have to go find the puppy, he wasn't........." There he was laying in our kitchen floor. He was awesome. We put up flyers, signs all over the place and hoped an owner would come to claim him(well my parents hoped that, I didn't). No one claimed him.

Long story short, 18 months later, he was put to sleep because of Osteosarcoma. He was my baby! My Bubba. 2 years went by and I got Hobie at 15 years old. He was a rescue, my dad's friend bred his litter and then gave Hobie to another friend as a wedding present. We did petsmart training classes and then some with the local agility club. H ewas not the kind of dog I wanted ever but I love him and he is a great dog.

I just had Hobie for a lot of years, then when my ex and I started looking at a dog to get together, I wanted a GSD or a Rottie and he wanted an APBT or a GSD. Eventually he won and we got Red, a registered AST dual registered as an APBT. When we split, I kept her as I was the better owner. I've done so much with her. She has a BH, 2/3 of a CD, TT, TDI, CGC and the list goes on. I've taken numerous classes with her.

BUT her health lagged and structural issues prevented me from ever being really competitive as I wanted to be with her.

When it was time to get a new competition dog, I chose a GSD as I've ALWAYS loves the breed, they are my first and true love. They also happen to excel in the sports that I like to do. It doesn't mean my decision was wrong or anything else.

I really feel like some people are bashing on others that choose to go with a different breed. I actually owned a GSD before Red so really, when I got Red, I guess i was being "unfaithful" to the GSD breed. They have also called those of us that want competition level dogs, "dog dumpers".

IDK. It's my choice. I'll own what I want to own. IF I want another GSD, I'll get one, IF I decide to try another breed I will.

FransterDoo wrote:I guess it's individual. And each of us can point fingers at each other in a vast, vast myrad of ways about right and wrong and intentions and reasoning and all that jazz. But in the long run, we'll each continue beliving what we believe because really, when it comes down to it - there are very, very few of us who are friends in real life. It's those friends who really matter to us and whos opinions and arugments can sway us into new ways of thinking about things.


SO TRUE!!!!!! :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost:

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Re: Getting out of the bullys?

Postby FransterDoo » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:09 pm

Sarah wrote: And it doesn't make it a wrong decision. If a person really does like the more competitive breed they choose to get, it's not "wrong" to get the different breed, that is an individual decision. But the decision is still driven by the desire for a more competitive breed.


I guess what I kept getting from your previous posts was a bit of a condemming of wanting a differnt breed and to be competitive and I honestly thought that was a little sad because I know that you, like all of us, have aspirations for your dogs (and yourself) and you work really hard in improving, growing and learning.

When pondering this idea of competition, I was thinking about a team we were helping a couple of weeks ago. They're a great group of people but also very much of the "we're in it for fun" crowd and there's minimal training and no strategy. My wife was helping with their passing. They were throwing huge, inconsistant passes of at least 8 feet. Many of them had no idea how to adjust themselves or judge when to release. One of the final races of the day, they all did fairly good passes (2-4 feet) and they won those heats. One of the handlers turned to me and said "It's really fun to win sometimes!"

If reminded me that being competitive isn't bad in and of itself - after all, it is fun to win sometimes. Being competitive is bad when you are willing and able do whatever it takes to reach the top.

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Re: Getting out of the bullys?

Postby Shanda » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:28 pm

The only thing I get competitive about is trivia, like Jeopardy. Then I'm out for blood. lol

I would like to do sports with my next dog, very much so. But which sport will depend on what my dog enjoys. I am thinking it's possible I could "get out" of APBTs. I mean, I might end up with an Amstaff. 8)

Actually, the only reason I went with a Boston Terrier for my current pup is that it's the closest thing I could find to a pit bull in the under 20# category. If there had been a way to just take an APBT and leave it in the dryer on the wrong setting to shrink it I would have. :)

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Re: Getting out of the bullys?

Postby Adrianne » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:32 pm

redgrrl wrote: If there had been a way to just take an APBT and leave it in the dryer on the wrong setting to shrink it I would have. :)

roflmao I grew up with 30 lbers.. I would love another tiny bully someday I think thats part of my attraction to staffies

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Re: Getting out of the bullys?

Postby Sarah » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:03 pm

FransterDoo wrote:
I guess what I kept getting from your previous posts was a bit of a condemming of wanting a differnt breed and to be competitive and I honestly thought that was a little sad because I know that you, like all of us, have aspirations for your dogs (and yourself) and you work really hard in improving, growing and learning.


No, I condemn people treating dogs like sports equipment and making the competition more important than the dog. And I'm skeptical of people wanting to change breeds because they've had not enough success with the breed they are working with, because I think it is more often the trainer than the breed in those cases. Wanting to own different breeds just because you like different breeds is a personal decision.

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Re: Getting out of the bullys?

Postby Red Chrome » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:12 pm

Sarah- Who here is treating their dogs as sports equipment and putting the sport first? Just because we get a dog bred to excel in a certain sport doesn't mean that we are putting the sport first.

So you are saying that someone that just might not MESH well with a certain breed and has topped out their training abilities with that breed makes you skeptical if they get a different breed? I agree that more than likely it is the trainer but some people just don't mesh with certain breeds of dogs.

I'm getting a holier than thou attitude from some here now. That is sad.

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Re: Getting out of the bullys?

Postby Adrianne » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:17 pm

I do think it's fair that no one has accused anyone and we shouldn't assume these comments are directed at anyone in particular but rather a certian type of people. I really don't see anyone here who treats their dogs as equiptment and am not about to request any finger pointing on an otherwise healthy debate.

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Re: Getting out of the bullys?

Postby Sarah » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:25 pm

Adrianne wrote:I do think it's fair that no one has accused anyone and we shouldn't assume these comments are directed at anyone in particular but rather a certian type of people. I really don't see anyone here who treats their dogs as equiptment and am not about to request any finger pointing on an otherwise healthy debate.


Thank you.


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