Low Fat Food Choices

[PitBull-Lady]

Many have you have contributed to my 2 most recent 'health issues' topics and I have been SO grateful.
Plop, plop, poop 12/2012 viewtopic.php?f=5&t=153918&hilit=fat+intolerance"
Low Urine Flow 11/2012 viewtopic.php?f=5&t=155666"

I'm trying to decide on a LowFat food to feed, but there are many, but I don't know if any are better or not... and there are SOOOO many! Quick Recap, Capone is 65 lbs & 4 years old. Since Capone has been having his IBS issues, we've been successful on the Hill's Rx diet id/LowFat. I'm thankful he's doing better, but I'd like to see him on a 'better' food. (granted, I have it in my mind that Hill's is not good food, and I don't necessarily have anything to back it up). We can keep on the idPrescription but I'd like to hear your opinions. I'm not as concerned in kcal but the fat content.


Hill's 331 kcal per Cup (currently feeding 3 cups a day + 1/2 can wet)
(nutrition info) http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-can ... t-dry.html"
(dry kibble ingredients)
Corn Starch, Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Whole Grain Wheat, Chicken By-Product Meal, Chicken Liver Flavor, Flaxseed, Oat Groats, Cracked Pearled Barley, Dried Beet Pulp, Lactic Acid, Ginger Root Powder, Soybean Oil, Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Citrate, Potassium Chloride, Iodized Salt, Choline Chloride, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), L-Lysine, Calcium Carbonate, Vitamin E Supplement, Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Carnitine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Beta-carotene, Phosphoric Acid, Rosemary Extract


ORIJIN Senior Formula 395 kcal per Cup
(nutrition info) http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/products/se ... lysis.aspx"
(ingredients)
Fresh boneless chicken*, chicken meal, fresh boneless salmon*, turkey meal, russet potato, herring meal, sweet potato, peas, pea fiber, fresh boneless turkey*, fresh whole eggs*, fresh chicken liver*, fresh boneless lake whitefish*, fresh boneless walleye*, sun-cured alfalfa, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), dried organic kelp, pumpkin, chicory root, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, blueberries, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium.


Annamaet 350 kcal per Cup (locally sourced, locally manufactured < I've fed the red meat & poultry previously and it is GREAT! the dogs love it)





When comparing the foods I want to rely on my FeedStore guy but let's face it, he wants to sell food so I want to come to my favorite opinion group >YOU< Before I posted about the 'Low Fat Food Choices', I wanted to research what has been talked about previously. Well, the topics searching IBS or Low Fat etc. gave me a lot of good info but also old info in the world of dog food.

[Enigma]

I really like Acana Light&Fit, that's what I use if I need to get a little weight off my dogs without cutting their food.

http://acana.com/products/light-fit

But I have to say that Annameat looks really good also, too bad we don't have it here.

[mtlu]

Are his issues related to fat content in the food or to the amount of calories/cup? If it's caloric, then simply feeding less would be the solution but if it's fat content, then you would need to examine the crude protein to fat ratios of each food.

[PitBull-Lady]

it's the fat. I just thought posting the kcal would at least give everyone an idea of what each cup had for calories. The fat in each is off by about 2-3% from what I can tell.

I'm nervous to experiment. REALLY nervous. But, if I could get at least 2 dogs on the same food it could be awesome!. One for the elderly lady and sharing with the young whipper snapper. But 'eh' I can handle 3 foods if need be.

[dogs4jen]

I think there's a Wellness low fat, no grain food too that might be worth a look.

[Murfins]

One of my seniors, Jordie, has IBD and has been having a really difficult year and we've had to resort to feeding vet foods (which I hated to do) at times to get his diarrhea and vomiting under control but in the last 4 weeks or so we've been able to successfully get him onto Go! Sensitivity & Shine duck - http://www.petcurean.com/for-dogs/go/sensitivity-and-shine-duck. We've found that he needs a food with lower protein and fat than the majority of traditional grain free foods but this allows for a MUCH better quality food than the vet foods, imo. We have had our senior Chi on this for about 4-6 months after she was having issues with vomiting bile on a fairly regular basis (she eats raw in the AM and kibble in the PM and was eating Acana) the lower fat and protein have solved her vomiting issues as well. (Ellie, my senior Chi, was a dog found near death from starvation and has had two episodes of HGE which have left her with a more sensitive stomach - thus the bile vomiting on higher fat and protein as she ages). She is doing GREAT on Go! sensitivity & shine duck and Jordie is doing good as well.

[PitBull-Lady]

^^^WOW! ...after that story I feel lucky only Capone has the IBS (getting to just that diagnosis has kept us busy and frustrated)

I had heard in a thread (2 yrs ago?) that opinions on Go! were varied. Some people liked it (especially an IBS dog's mom), but from 2 others the opinion was that it is not good food but I don't think there was a specific reason given.

Mostly, I'm trying to stay away from anyone who uses Chinese vitamins & ingredients. Which is difficult to do! Do you know if Go! uses Chinese ingredients? I was also considering

VeRUS <no Chinese, from Abingdon, MD
http://www.veruspetfoods.com/products/f ... -food.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"
(nutrition) 359 kcal per Cup
Crude Protein (min) 17.00%, Crude Fat (min) 8.00%, Crude Fiber (max) 3.50%, Moisture (max) 12.00%
(ingredients)
Ground Brown Rice, Ground Grain Sorghum, Lamb Meal, Ground Oats, Rice Bran, Chicken Fat (preserved with Natural Mixed Tocopherols), Flaxseed, Chicory Pulp, Alfalfa, Kelp, Natural Flavors, Salt, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Riboflavin Supplement, dl-Methionine, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Choline Chloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate.


Wellness (don't know about Chinese Ingredients yet, but I think they have them)
(nutrition) 360 kcal Cup
Crude Protein min 33%, Crude Fat Not min 10%, Crude Fat max 12% , Crude Fiber max 8.5%
(ingredients)
Deboned Turkey, Turkey Meal, Chicken Meal, Potatoes, Peas, Dried Ground Potatoes, Pea Fiber, Tomato Pomace, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Chicken Liver, Natural Chicken Flavor, Ground Flaxseed, Salmon Oil, Carrots, Sweet Potatoes, Kale, Broccoli, Spinach, Parsley, Apples, Blueberries, Vitamins [Vitamin E Supplement, Beta-Carotene, Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Biotin, Folic Acid], Minerals [Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate], Choline Chloride, Mixed Tocopherols added to preserve freshness, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Taurine, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Rosemary Extract.

[PitBull-Lady]

Wellness Core Grain Free Reduced Fat
http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/product- ... guidelines

[PitBull-Lady]

GO! SENSITIVITY + SHINE Duck Recipehttp://www.petcurean.com/for-dogs/go/sensitivity-and-shine-duck
(nutrition) 438 kcal per Cup
Crude protein (min) 22%, Crude fat (min) 12%, Crude Fiber max 3.5%
(ingredients)
Duck meal, oatmeal, potatoes, whole oats, de-boned duck, canola oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), apples, natural flavour, flaxseed, quinoa, kamut flakes, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, sodium chloride, dried kelp, vitamins (vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, inositol, niacin, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (a source of vitamin C), d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, beta-carotene, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), minerals (zinc methionine complex, zinc proteinate , iron proteinate, copper proteinate, zinc oxide, manganese proteinate, copper sulphate, ferrous sulphate, calcium iodate, manganous oxide, selenium yeast), dried chicory root, L-lysine, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Aspergillus niger fermentation product, dried Aspergillus oryzae fermentation product, yucca schidigera extract, dried rosemary

GO! FIT + FREE Grain Free Senior Recipehttp://www.petcurean.com/for-dogs/go/fit-and-free-grain-free-senior
(nutrition) 394 kcal per Cup
Crude protein (min) 32%, Crude fat (min)14%, Crude fibre (max) 4.5%
(ingredients)
Chicken meal, turkey meal, salmon meal, de-boned chicken, de-boned turkey, de-boned trout, potatoes, peas, tapioca, lentil beans, chickpeas, pea fibre, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), natural chicken flavour, whole dried egg, apples, duck meal, herring meal, flaxseed, salmon oil, alfalfa, de-boned duck, de-boned salmon, sweet potatoes, canola oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), coconut oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), potassium chloride, pumpkin, carrots, bananas, blueberries, cranberries, broccoli, spinach, alfalfa sprouts, blackberries, squash, papayas, pomegranate, glucosamine hydrochloride, dried chicory root, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Aspergillus niger fermentation product, dried Aspergillus oryzae fermentation product, L-carnitine, vitamins (vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, inositol, niacin, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (a source of vitamin C), d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, beta-carotene, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), minerals (zinc proteinate , iron proteinate, copper proteinate, zinc oxide, manganese proteinate, copper sulphate, ferrous sulphate, calcium iodate, manganous oxide, selenium yeast), sodium chloride, taurine, New Zealand green mussels, yucca schidigera extract, chondroitin sulphate, dried rosemary, green tea extract, peppermint, parsley, rosehips, zedoary, dandelion, chamomile, ginger, fennel, tumeric, juniper berries, licorice, marigold extract, cardamom, cloves

[mtlu]

I haven't tried Acana Light & Fit but Molly has been eating different formulas of Acana Singles for a while now. Unfortunately, I don't think the protein:fat ratio will work for Capone's issues but the Light & Fit has a better profile. The crude protein is higher in the Light & Fit (35% : 10%) than in the Singles (25% : 17%) but I think it's important to look at the protein : fat ratio as a whole rather than as separate numbers.

For Wellness Core, I recommend to try to to find out where it is produced. In Northern California, Wellness and Wellness Core are produced at a Diamond-run plant – this plant has never been involved in Diamond recalls but I avoid it anyway.

Regarding the vitamins, I honestly wouldn't sweat it that much – and I'm fairly uptight about sourcing/manufacturing concerns (Molly does not get rawhide or bully sticks). The majority of all vitamins on the market for human consumption is synthesized in China and if there were drastic problems, there would be huge recalls in not just in the US but globally. Also, given that dog food is so unregulated, I don't know if the vitamin analysis is done before or after the ingredients have been processed – and heat from processing can also wipe out the bioavailability of synthesized vitamins.

[Red]

Hi Pitbull-lady. I also looked at a several kinds of low fat kibble, or diets, when my Tux had an attack of pancreatitis and tets and biopsies determined that he has IBD.
He was on Horizon Amicus senior and weight magament for a while, which I really liked due to the fact that the company has its own plant in Canada, has never had a recall and it uses local organic human grade ingredients.I picked that kind of food, among others that the company offers, because of the fat amount and the red lentils as source of carbohydrate and fiber, and the protein level.

The ingredients fro the Amicus weight management:
Turkey, chicken meal, red lentils, peas, pea starch, salmon, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, form of vitamin e), salmon oil, (preserved with mixed tocopherols, form of vitamin e) flax, , alfalfa meal, turkey meal, pea fibre, egg product, carrots, apples, broccoli, bok choy, cabbage, blueberries, dried saccharomyces cerevisiae fermentation extract, fructooligosaccharides, yucca schdigera extract, glucosamine, hydrochloride, chondroitin sulfate, dried aspergillus niger fermentation extract, dried aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, pinapple, dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried lactobaciluus acidophilus fermentation product, dried bifidobacterium bifidum fermentation product, dried lactobacillius plantarum fermentation product, vitamin a acetate, vitamin d3 supplement, vitamin e supplement, vitamin b12 supplement, riboflavin, niacin, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, d-calcium pantothenate, biotin, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin c) ferrous sulfate, iron proteinate, zinc sulfate, zinc proteinate, manganous oxide, manganese proteinate, copper sulfate, copper proteinate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, magnesium oxide.

Analysis:
Crude Protein (min) 30.0%
Crude Fat (min) 10.5%
Crude Fibre (max) 4.25%
Moisture (max) 10.0%
Ash (max) 6.8%
Calcium (min) 1.24%
Phosphorus (min) 0.9%
Omega 3 Fatty Acids (min)* 0.8%
Omega 6 Fatty Acids (min)* 2.6%

CALORIE CONTENT / NOMBRE DE CALORIES
ME (CALCULATED) 3470 KCAL/KG
ME (CALCULATED) 400 KCAL/CUP

Tux was doing very well on it, til the end of October, when he had to be put on IV for one day, due to his IBD issues. IBD can be pretty frustrating, and it is hard to pint point exactly what is triggering the inflammation but because of his latest bout I changed something. I am trying to stay away from kibble regardless how good a brand can be, with the hope that his body can benefit from it. He is currently on Honest Kitchen Preference, which is dehydrated fruits and vegetables in a bag. It’s 100% human-grade and once I add the water to hydrate the ingredients, I add fresh cooked meat such as turkey, chicken breast and organs or white fish/ tilapia fish, and sweet potatoes or organic brown rice and quinoia in limited quantity.

Honest Kitchen Preference ingredients:
Dehydrated sweet potatoes, organic alfalfa, cabbage, organic coconut, apples, spinach, pumpkin, bananas, celery, organic kelp, honey, tricalcium phosphate, choline chloride, zinc amino acid chelate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, potassium iodide, potassium chloride, iron amino acid chelate, copper amino acid chelate.

Analysis:
Protein, 12% min
Fat, 6% min
Fiber, 10% max
Moisture, 10% max
333 Calories per cup


Also, Tux gets a series of supplement that can potentially help with IBD related issues.I know you did not ask for supplements but I thought I share what I am using, in case you want to look into it. Tux gets Grizzly salmon oil, Berte's daily blend, -L-glutamine, Seacure ( hydrolyzed fish protein), Dogzymes Probiotics, Slippery Elm (I get the organic powder and make a syrup with it), organic virgin coconut oil and CoQ10.

I have a few recipes for a home made diet that are low in fat, pretty easy to make, let me know if you want to see them.

[Misskiwi67]

Prescription low fat diets have a crude fat content of 6-8%, I would avoid any OTC foods that have a fat content higher than 10% for a pet with a history of pancreatitis.

If IBD is the concern, you should be doing a limited ingredient diet, which recent independent studies have found most of the OTC brands to be contaminated. The OTC diets just don't clean their mixing containers well enough to be a true limited ingredient diet. Its similar to how people with peanut allergies can't eat foods that are made in a facility where peanuts go into any other foods.

[El_EmDubya]

OK, so I read through the other threads...Ta Da..."CLASSIC IBS". Easy fix, but you have to have discipline.

Here is the issue... If you don't get the gut permeability under control, this is going to progress into a full blown autoimmune disease. Don't underestimate how long or hard the body tries to fight the fact that the blood stream is contaminated with poop. Yes, fecal matter. It is as easy as that.

So from now on, picture Capone's bloodstream filled with poop.

If anyone's dog has an IBS (or IBD) diagnosis, I would not be feeding anything other than a home cooked or raw diet. When you read the ingredients for all of those previously listed dog foods there are allergens and inflammation triggers - including anything called "flavoring", seed oils (Canola oil is used to produce IBS in lab animals, btw.), corn anything, wheat anything, and soy anything. Yeah for "progress". Boo for not being biologically sound.

The problem, as a dog owner, is that you are not going to be able to read between the lines on these food labels as the (mba educated) manufacturers have realized people are trying to avoid gluten and the other allergens (soy, corn, dairy, and wheat) that have been "recently" deemed harmful. The manufacturers have been really sneaky about renaming ingredients so that you don't really know what it is...for instance, "protein flavoring" is MSG, which is wheat based (gluten).

How do I know this? I spent 20 years dealing with IBS issues.

And what caused the steepest decline in my health, you ask? Yup, Cipro and Flagyl. (I spent a little time in Central and South American jungles and I'm fortunate to have been "healed", but the long term consequences were not pretty.

These antibiotics destroyed my health and lead to every major symptom's escalation - to a point that I finally walked into the Emergency clinic and said "I'm dying." Believe me, I felt like cr*p.

I feel for Capone, really...

And it took a long time, lots of reading and self experimentation to begin to solve my IBS issues.
So, this is what I'd do, and you'll likely experience amazing results in the first month:

I'd buy yourself a slow cooker and make lots of chicken broth (use chicken feet, chicken bone, and ox tail that can be purchased cheaply at Asian markets). Let them cook for 2 days on Low with a couple of lemons or vinegar to increase the acidity, allowing more nutrients to be extracted in the process. It should have the consistency of jello when refrigerated.

Chicken broth does amazing things for GI problems and he should have at least 1 cup per day.

You should have a diet which initially has 25% fat, 70% protein, and 5% carb...transitioning to 50% fat, 40% protein, and 10% carb. This gives the body time to heal the gut while minimizing bile salt issues and inflammation, which is where the pancreatitis started.

You can skim off the fat, but I doubt fat is the problem over the long haul. Plus when you remove fat, you have to be more concerned about protein issues and stressing the liver. A healthy diet for dogs, and people, is about 60-70% of calories from fat, which makes sense given our brains are 70% fat. If you starve the body of fat, you starve the brain. So that's why you should be working towards a more balanced diet than the high carb low fat suggestions.

Your goal should be a diet of 50% fat within 6 months.

1. Feed fish, duck, or pastured beef (slow cooked, or raw) while supplementing with the following:


2. 1g Salmon Oil per 10lbs dog (anti-inflammatory + stress relief + improving hormonal signaling at the cellular level)

3. Coconut oil (or a MCT which you can purchase on Amazon) to produce a diet where 25% of the calories come from fat, then progress in 5% increments to 50%...

4. Symbotics Colostrum (I learned about this on a dog health forum and now use it for my own health and LOVE how it has improved my GI.) Here's some info on how it works, and an interesting (geeky) blog to read:

5. Probiotics (He needs to be on a constant rotation and I'd let him eat all the grass and dirt he wants to re-populate his gut and don't worry about keeping the house too clean. (Let him lick the floors in the kitchen as that is a great way to pick up good bacteria from dirt on your shoes. Unfortunately his history of flagyl+Cipro set him up for long term problems until his gut is healed, which can take +2 years of a clean, clean diet.)

For anyone, like me, who has gone through the trials of IBS, you learn along the way to keep things simple...very simple. Too many ingredients, in anything, is just asking for trouble as you can't track back to what caused the reaction. And, since your body may react in numerous ways, at various timing, to the same trigger, it takes a long time to sort out what is wrong.

I'd also recommend fasting him for 24 to 36 hour intervals daily to give his GI time to heal and rest his liver. Since you'll be feeding a high protein diet, you need to give the liver a rest. After all, it is dealing with a lot of poop in the blood stream.

Best of luck,

LMW

PS Prednisone is known to cause pancreatitis, along with antibiotics. Unfortunately a lot of these "modern" medicines work against the third law of physics which states that for every action there is an equal and opposite action. Every medication creates motion and the "equal and opposite" motions are the side effects. Sometimes we don't see those side effects until well after the initial motion, sadly.

[Misskiwi67]

Your goal should be a diet of 50% fat within 6 months.

Seriously?? In what world is this good advice for ANY species? In what part of nature does this EVER occur (outside possibly arctic mammals?)??

PS Prednisone is known to cause pancreatitis, along with antibiotics. Unfortunately a lot of these "modern" medicines work against the third law of physics which states that for every action there is an equal and opposite action. Every medication creates motion and the "equal and opposite" motions are the side effects. Sometimes we don't see those side effects until well after the initial motion, sadly.

Prednisone causing pancreatitis is not true. It might be true for humans, but it is absolutely not true for dogs.

And the rest... well... I don't even know where to start, so I'm going to let everyone else decide what they want to believe...

[El_EmDubya]

Not reading any Neurology Journals are you?

And, dogs and humans shared similar diets up until 1900s...which, yes, both were ~70% fat.

50% fat is well within reason for a fat composition built on MCTs. There is a big difference in how the body processes Triglicerides...You are welcome to research it...it's all the most up to date, not the stuff built on Big Ags 70s research.