Problems with the neighbors dog again, this time it was bad

Tricks, obedience, behavior, and more.
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PittiMama03031
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Postby PittiMama03031 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:28 am

I thought maybe she had the dogs mixed up, but I am not planning on getting rid of Moose regardless. I am going to talk to some training professsionals, and see if they can evaluate him and see how DA he is in their opinion. I am going to keep him muzzled when I take him out of the house regardless. I hate doing it to him, but until I figure something out it is the responsible thing to do.

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Postby Gatorpit » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:38 am

PittiMama03031 wrote:I thought maybe she had the dogs mixed up, but I am not planning on getting rid of Moose regardless. I am going to talk to some training professsionals, and see if they can evaluate him and see how DA he is in their opinion. I am going to keep him muzzled when I take him out of the house regardless. I hate doing it to him, but until I figure something out it is the responsible thing to do.


It is absolutely 100% normal for this breed to have some level of DA.

It is not something you should regard as a behavioral problem. DA for pit bulls (and many other breeds) is like the desire to chase racoons for coonhounds, rats for rat terriers, and flying objects for labs.

If he is a young dog (under four or five years) and you are only just beginning to see this behavior...that too is normal.

Many first time pit bull owners are quite surprised when their normally dog friendly dog starts getting snarky with other dogs as it ages.

Some bully breeds are born displaying DA, some begin to display it at a few weeks or months old. Most begin to display the first signs around puberty (between 6 months and 1/12 years) many don't begin to display any DA behavior till between 2-5 years.

Very rarely, some won't ever display any DA.

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PittiMama03031
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Postby PittiMama03031 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:32 am

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply Gatorpit. I know that DA comes with the breed, and I have always tried to be watchful for its development in Moose. This has been an ongoing thing with the lab since they got him, but they used to keep him contained, so it was only once in a while that he was out. Moose has always reacted badly to him, I posted a while ago about it. They never taught the lab anyting, and he has absolutly no clue about how to apporach another dog, or how to read the signals the other dog is sending. Which I thought was something dogs are born knowing. I am wondering if it may be some fear aggression in Moose to, along with DA. I am going to do another post to fully explain what happens between them, and see what everyone thinks.

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Postby kaliya5 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:31 am

Whops, read through it too fast.

NO, I wasn't saying rid of your dog. lol DA is fairly common, and Moose is a cool name. Just meant it sounded like the poor lab wants you to be his mom. I feel sorry for him, and have a soft spot for lonely labs. :crybaby: Maybe having the lab picked up by AC will make the owners take responsibility..... or maybe not.

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Postby heartbullies » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:48 pm

Gatorpit wrote:
It is absolutely 100% normal for this breed to have some level of DA.

It is not something you should regard as a behavioral problem. DA for pit bulls (and many other breeds) is like the desire to chase racoons for coonhounds, rats for rat terriers, and flying objects for labs.

If he is a young dog (under four or five years) and you are only just beginning to see this behavior...that too is normal.


I consider it normal for the breed, however it is not acceptable for my bully-breed dog or for a bully-breed dog that I am fostering, to then redirect and bite me or a handler, when worked up over another dog or another animal. If an untrained dog is reactive on leash, and I cannot safely restrain it without it biting me or trying to bite me, that's not a safe scenario.

For now you need to be safe.

Since Moose has now had some poor experiences with dogs, I would set up some good and positive interactions with other dogs. *Not* touching or playing with other dogs, but simply being on-leash around other calm, leashed dogs-- however far away they need to be for Moose to be calm and focused, whether that's ten feet or four blocks. Over time, hopefully he can become more calm with these non-touching interactions as he gets closer and closer to other dogs, and other types of dogs including panting dogs, barking dogs, etc. But that takes time. Since you now know that Moose's bite selectivity/inhibition goes out the window when he's amped, you need to be really careful! I would strongly recommend working with a trainer who has the experience and equipment to help you in person, and who can see Moose and gauge his reactions and have you respond at the exact moment needed. He or she can hopefully help you to desensitize Moose not only to the presence of other animals (not touching or sniffing, just having them walking down the street on a leash), but also ways to get a dog into a calmer state without physically touching the dog and getting bitten?

Do you have a securely fenced yard that you can take Moose out into where there is no chance of another dog entering, and perhaps take him out on a leash or long-line so that in an emergency, say if he fence-fights or sees another dog, you can safely remove him from the situation without touching him and getting bitten as he's all worked up?

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Postby Gatorpit » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:17 pm

heartbullies wrote:
Gatorpit wrote:
It is absolutely 100% normal for this breed to have some level of DA.

It is not something you should regard as a behavioral problem. DA for pit bulls (and many other breeds) is like the desire to chase racoons for coonhounds, rats for rat terriers, and flying objects for labs.

If he is a young dog (under four or five years) and you are only just beginning to see this behavior...that too is normal.


I consider it normal for the breed, however it is not acceptable for my bully-breed dog or for a bully-breed dog that I am fostering, to then redirect and bite me or a handler, when worked up over another dog or another animal. If an untrained dog is reactive on leash, and I cannot safely restrain it without it biting me or trying to bite me, that's not a safe scenario.


That's very true, and I failed to address that part of her situation (actually I plain forgot about that part). I assumed when she was talking about having him evaluated she was purely reffering to his desire to fight with the lab.

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PittiMama03031
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Postby PittiMama03031 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:59 pm

You make a good point, an unfortunatly i don't have a fenced in yard right now, i am going to do it as soon as I can. Moose was biting me, because i had him by the front paws and he screamed in pain a few times before he bit me. I think that is normal dog behavior, when all hyped up like that. It wasn't severe biting, it was just nips trying to get me to let go. I can grab and holds his paws at other times and he is fine.

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Postby Gatorpit » Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:56 am

PittiMama03031 wrote:You make a good point, an unfortunatly i don't have a fenced in yard right now, i am going to do it as soon as I can. Moose was biting me, because i had him by the front paws and he screamed in pain a few times before he bit me. I think that is normal dog behavior, when all hyped up like that. It wasn't severe biting, it was just nips trying to get me to let go. I can grab and holds his paws at other times and he is fine.


technically...it's not normal pit bull behavior. One trait that was bred for in pit bulls was the inability to redirect on humans no matter what the circumstances...pain, fear, and excitement.

In the fighting pit, the dogs were constantly handled by the refferee and their hadlers. It was a liability to have a dog that would bite a human under the above circumstances.

So, while it may be normal dog behavior, it is not normal pit bull behavior.

Obviously though, since these dogs are no longer being selectively bred for these traits, they will begin to slip away.

But, we cannot accept that as an excuse.

As long as the breed as a whole, or an individual dog, becomes aggressive and excited, it is a liability to add in redirection.

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Postby wspeed1195 » Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:16 pm

BabyReba wrote:that's ridiculous you have to be terrorized by your neighbor's dog! it's not the dog's fault, but i would put the dog in my car, drive him to the pound, and tell them you keep finding him on your property and trying to get into your house.

he's probably better off taking his chances in a shelter, where he might get a better home, than living with a family that doesn't care what happens to him one way or the other. poor dog.
go about 3 counties or jurisdictions away.

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Postby L Boogie » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:59 pm

Your dog is normal, and as long as he is never off-leash, you're doing nothing wrong.

Lure the lab into your car and take him to the shelter. Problem solved.

I have no patience for off-leash dogs in my neigborhood...if the owner is outside with them they get an earful from me about the leash laws. If the owner is nowhere to be found, I call AC.

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PittiMama03031
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Postby PittiMama03031 » Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:31 pm

Gatorpit, Is there something I should do then? I mean about him nipping at me, should I consult a professional? It may be changing I guess, but he has always been easy with us, we have been able to put our faces in his food bowl while he was eating, pretend to chew his bones, while he was chewing on them, take his toys away from him, and other things I wouldn't have dared ever try with my previous dogs. If it is something that is a sign that he is becoming aggressive I want to nip it in the bud right now.

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Postby Gatorpit » Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:40 pm

PittiMama03031 wrote:Gatorpit, Is there something I should do then? I mean about him nipping at me, should I consult a professional? It may be changing I guess, but he has always been easy with us, we have been able to put our faces in his food bowl while he was eating, pretend to chew his bones, while he was chewing on them, take his toys away from him, and other things I wouldn't have dared ever try with my previous dogs. If it is something that is a sign that he is becoming aggressive I want to nip it in the bud right now.


No..sorry...my post didn't have much bearing on this situation.

I meant true redirection...it was more conversational.

If- when you say nipping you mean gentle pinch bites that don't apply much pressure or break the skin, that's not really redirecting...that's just a dog asking you to stop doing something he doesn't like...albeit in a very innapropriate way.

Redirection is when a dog visciously attacks or at least bites someone or something nearby that is not the actual cause of his excitement.

I keep forgetting to re hash your original post details. A lot of people have been saying your dog redirected...but I think that's because you said he caused a lot of damage to your hand...and you said he nipped at you when you were holding him.

But reading again, your post clearly states that the damage to your hand was caused by you putting it in the dog's mouth to make him let go of the other dog...not by redirecting.

So, actually...I would suggest you work with him on an absolute (no teeth on skin" rule, but it doesn't sound like his nipping is actually redirection at all.

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Postby *leenie* » Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:12 pm

Oh that poor lab. He just wants a home that loves him. I agree dont beat yourself up over this. Just learn and move on. I have a dog with what I thought was uncontrollable DA but after a year of hard work its now very mangeable.


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