Aggression VERY IMPORTANT

Tricks, obedience, behavior, and more.
User avatar
LoveBullies
Matured Bully
Posts: 490
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:30 pm
Location: South West Florida

Aggression VERY IMPORTANT

Postby LoveBullies » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:00 pm

Ok, So Gator is now almost 5 months old, let me tell you about his history first. I got him from the rescue i used to volunteer for, him and his siblings including his mother were rescued out of a north florida kill shelter, later when we were reading there paperwork, we realized they came from a dog fighting/drug ring bust, his mother was a breed dog, and we do not know who she was breed with. Gator showed great temperment, and has been very calm and relaxed, never had any issues. About 2 weeks ago, My son Landon who is 2 years old, and plays with the dogs, walked by him, and he jumped up and tried to bite my son, he was quickly corrected and put into his crate as punishment, things have been fine since then, until now about 30 minutes ago, my son sat on the couch with his toy cars, and was talking to himself, and roaring his cars, next to Gator, about 2 seconds later, Gator jumped up and bit him in the face. I am at a loss on what to do... I'm nervous, and he's been to training and temperment testing, and he passed all with flying colors until lately.

ANY SUGGESTIONS, CRITICISM I don't care, just tell me something, My son is number one to me, I can't keep letting this happen, and I don't want to lock Gator up constantly as I don't agree with crates much.

User avatar
Nickdawg
Addicted to PBF
Posts: 7050
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:15 pm

Postby Nickdawg » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:12 pm

Keep your son and the dog completely seperated and hire a behaviourist to assess the dog asap - if you let people know where you are, someone may be able to make some recommendations re: good behaviourists... hard to tell over the net, but he may not have good genetics, and now as he is maturing and settling in, true colors are coming out.

User avatar
Roxers
Bully Lover 4 Life
Posts: 1104
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:23 am
Location: Athens, GA or Charleston, SC

Postby Roxers » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:43 pm

What was the dog's body language like? Can you describe exactly what happened? It was definitely not a playful action?

I second the idea of having him professionally evaluated by a behaviorist. That kind of thing is not something you want to mess around with.

User avatar
04100824
Pit Bull Forum Addict
Posts: 1759
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:52 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Postby 04100824 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:26 pm

LoveBullies wrote:...son sat on the couch with his toy cars, and was talking to himself, and roaring his cars, next to Gator, about 2 seconds later, Gator jumped up and bit him in the face.


Were they both on the couch?

If so, perhaps some *major* freedom restrictions are in order.

User avatar
elrojo
Adolescent Bully
Posts: 353
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:53 pm

Postby elrojo » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:48 pm

Was it an aggressive bite or play bite? How much damage was inflicted? If I had a toddler and it was an aggressive bite, I'd HAVE choose between euthanasia and re-homing the pup. If it was play, I'd work with boundaries HARD and never turn my back on the animal when in the home with my child. I know that sounds harsh, but in no way could I live with myself if something horrible happened to my baby and I'd had a warning. I like the idea of a calling in a behaviorist very much, but they can only be around a dog so much and can't be expected to see everything. Personally, I could not risk it.

User avatar
Nickdawg
Addicted to PBF
Posts: 7050
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:15 pm

Postby Nickdawg » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:23 pm

Good posting above- really need more information... but just wanted to add in thinking a bit more, that it could just be mouthy limited manners "pup" behaviour... attracted by the movement of your son walking by, clothes moving etc., wanting to grab and wanting to get the toy that was also moving.... if so, it would be about boundaries/superrvision etc.

msvette2u

Postby msvette2u » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:47 pm

elrojo wrote:If I had a toddler and it was an aggressive bite, I'd HAVE choose between euthanasia and re-homing the pup.


I agree except...don't rehome, euthanize the dog.
If it was an aggressive bite and the child has broken skin and/or stitches, do not make your problem someone elses.

User avatar
1lila1
Pit Bull Forum Addict
Posts: 1878
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 12:35 pm

Postby 1lila1 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:01 pm

I think much more information is needed before anyone advises euthanizing this dog. This "dog" is a five month old puppy! We have no idea if he was socialized properly around this child, no idea of the level of supervision that goes on when the dog and child are together. When you say, "he's been to training and temperment testing, and he passed all with flying colors until lately" What sort of training and temperament testing is this dog undergoing? Does it use positive reinforcement? Training for puppies should be an ongoing thing. There's no way a five month old puppy can have "passed" his training. Another thing is that punishing a dog by putting him in his crate is a big red flag to me that maybe, just maybe, this puppy is not being handled or managed correctly.

I agree that it is irresponsible to make a problem dog someone else's problem but I think, based on the information given, this puppy might be able to be worked with. It is equally irresponsible to just euthanize your dog without trying every other option first, IMO. The OP is taking a good first step by seeking advice from this forum but you really need to see a behaviorist in person now.

User avatar
Red
Addicted to PBF
Posts: 9519
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:35 am
Location: SoCal

Postby Red » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:16 pm

Lovebullies, where are you compared to Tallahassee or Tampa?

msvette2u

Postby msvette2u » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:48 pm

I don't think anyone's saying to go put the dog down.
But I'd say it's definitely on the table, with a child in the house who has now been bitten.

User avatar
LoveBullies
Matured Bully
Posts: 490
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:30 pm
Location: South West Florida

Postby LoveBullies » Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:01 am

I'm going to try to anwser everyones questions, if I miss something let me know....

I have had Gator since he was 7-8 weeks old, he has been seeing a friend of mine who is a state certified trainer (from what I know) and she does training at pet stores and her local shop. We've done basic commands; amongst the basics.

Gator and my son have been around each other since the first day Gator was brought home. They have been socialized a lot, I have 2 other pits in my home, one being a mix breed. I HAVE NOT gotten Gator altered yet, as I was trying to wait until he was 6 - 8 months of age; consdering all the controversary on when what the best age is to have it done and not done.......Last nights bite was NOT playful, if it was playful I would not be on the forum. I was sitting a couple feet away, and saw this happen, YES they were both on the couch, Gator first growled and showed his teeth and as soon as I said "Don't do it" while getting up to go over to him, he grabbed my sons face. Now for me putting him in his crate, he was told no, I didn't explain to the dog why he shouldn't do it, as all he hears is me barking but he understands "no" and "leave it". I simply picked him up told him no, and placed him in his crate as punishment, as my 2 year old was screaming and crying, if you have another suggestion of punishment other than crate please feel free to tell me, as I DO NOT and WILL NOT physically harm my dogs.

On another note, HE WILL NOT be rehomed; if he has "Genetic Issues" or "Agression Issues" I would never place that in someone elses hands, or in danger another family. I am here asking for help and advice on how to correct him and check this. As for the behaviorist, I'm located in Fort Myers, FL. I am 2 hours south of Tampa and 6-8 hours south west of Tallahassee.

As for Gator's body language, He was laying on the far side of the couch, Landon (my son) got up on the couch with his toys, Gator looked to be just laying there almost sleeping, but Landon has never bothered him before, never. He's never been scared or shyed away from son, never. They play together, they run around the yard together.

Also for the euthanisa comment, if in deed there is a issue far past my control, if I can not find a rescue to work with him or he is not saveable, then yes I will be sure to euthanize my dog, if he is workable and manageable, then that IS NO option. But like I said my son is NUMBER ONE.

User avatar
elrojo
Adolescent Bully
Posts: 353
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:53 pm

Postby elrojo » Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:22 am

Thanks for the additional info. After that and rereading the original post, this bite is the second incident. If they were puppy play bites, that'd be one thing. Since they weren't; there is no WAY I'd keep the dog in the home with my child. It's far from my nature to suggest putting a 5 month old puppy down, but I could not keep him. I sincerely wish you the best and am heartbroken to hear your dilemma.

msvette2u

Postby msvette2u » Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:28 am

It sounds like resource guarding to the extreme. Probably a fairly 'workable' issue but a bit alarming in a pup so young.
Definitely get your behaviorist on board, etc.
Don't let the dog around the child and if you don't already, NILIF to the hilt.
NO couch time at all for the dog. No unearned food or treats. By 'earn' I mean make the dog SIT before he eats and before treats, re-read the NILIF sticky.
Good luck - keep us updated!

User avatar
luvnstuff
Addicted to PBF
Posts: 6454
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:34 pm
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Postby luvnstuff » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:04 am

I agree its really really hard to define, and train a problem like this without seeing the entire home and all enviroments of the home, humans, dogs.

A few things are possible.

Has the dog been TAUGHT how to behave around the kid. Not just socialized but taught how to behave.
Like have you had the dog , on leash, (in control) and had the kid make tons of noise, I mean noise like only a small child can make.. ;0 )
TEACH TEACH TEACH..

The dog could of been startled, and reacted. Which some dogs can learn recovery quick..some dont have the nerves..here is a job to find out what is it? is the dog too nervy? Or just startled easy.
Time to "Watch TV" as I call it, as written above, show the world noisy and busy under control of the leader (you -adults in the home)

Another REALLY big mistake people make is correcting a puppy or dog without teaching.
This is a common and sometimes critical error.

like this
The dog reacts ,jumps, leaps acts in a way we dont like at a child, so we correct the dog (without already laying the groundwork of teaching HOW to behave)
so we grab the dog, do some correction (yelling, zapping of the neck with whatever device, including hands, etc etc etc.. whatever the correction is) and annex the dog from the situation.

Ok ..the dog is sitting alone now, thinking
"WTH? .. so everytime I react to that noisy thing (child) I get my arse chewed out"
so it begins to build almost resentment against the child -or the THING that got him corrected.

For we havent set up the GROUND RULES OF HOW TO BEHAVE, but we are quick to correct.

This happens ALOT and is almost normal to do so.. some dogs just learn the hard way, some are more stubborn and take the other route, which is not good.

I am not stating the dog is trainable, I am not stating it is NOT. I do not know you or have met the dog.

But just thought I would toss that into your head as you step back and try to look at the picture as a whole.
Bites are hard.. puppies are stupid tho..they can react without thinking.
Its our job to find out "Can they think? "

Good luck.
sorry this is a hard thing to go thru..

Getting a real and fair trainer is a good idea, be leary of people who want quick fixes and "instant results"

User avatar
steptide
Matured Bully
Posts: 553
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:09 am

Postby steptide » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:36 am

when you say "he was quickly corrected" , what was the correction? second , i wouldnt ever use the crate as a punishment. their is nothing wrong with putting your dog into the crate to seperate him from your child , but using it negatively may ultimately end up being more of a problem.

one thing you have to remember about dogs too , and this isnt just pitbulls , but all breeds of dog. dogs know exactly where their teeth are and how to use them. the chances of a dog snapping at someone and missing is slim to none. if your dog snapped at you and missed , it was most likely not an accident that they missed.

now , i dont know why your dog snapped at your child . but be very careful that your corrections arnt making the issue worse. we want the dog and your kid to have a good relationship with each other . so please give us some more explanation


Return to “Training and Behavior”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests