come....pretty please?

Tricks, obedience, behavior, and more.
d3ko
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come....pretty please?

Postby d3ko » Fri May 08, 2009 3:22 pm

I love Leonidas but today he really pushed my buttons. I have recently moved into a new house and it has a fenced in yard so i decided why not let him out of leash? Well Leonidas decided to run around for about 20 min before coming. Hes been to obidence class and I know he knows come but how can I teach him this again or reenforce this? The way he was taught come was with me and the trainer on opposite sides of a long narrow hall way. I call him and give him a treat and viceversa. then we worked come leo into the command. o and leonidas is now 10months he went through training at about 4months.

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Stormi
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Postby Stormi » Fri May 08, 2009 3:34 pm

Chances are, when you trained in your obedience class, it was in a classroom setting as opposed to outdoors, correct? Think of allll the discrations outside has to offer to compete with your call... smells, sights, play... LOTS of stuff. You may need to take a few steps back in his training. "Come" indoors does not equate to "come" outdoors, so he may need a little help. Start like you did in class with some high value treats. Go out into the yard and call him from a very short distance. Give him some fanfare if need be to get his attention, and praise like mad when he comes to you. With a little of this kind of practice, he'll get the idea in no time.

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FBODGRL
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Postby FBODGRL » Fri May 08, 2009 7:32 pm

There is a good post in this section where Red came some suggestions.

If you want to seach I think maybe Annika was the OP, but I am not sure.

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tiva
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Postby tiva » Sun May 10, 2009 10:01 pm

Here's what I suggested to Jazzy back in March, and in a recent thread, she said it worked really well for her. It's worked wonders for our young dog. Patricia McConnell teaches the recall this way:

"I would do 50 long line recalls--not just when you want her to come in, but as part of games. If she thinks the recall only means fun is about to end, then why come? Instead, I try to have at least a 10 to 1 ratio of "recall means a great great game is about to happen" not "recall means we go back in". So by all means, whip out the chicken (but hide it so you're not luring her). Play fun GAMES with the long line, recalling her, using the line if necessary, giving her a cheeseburger, then immediately running away from her and recalling her again.

I put my dogs on a sit-stay, walk away, and then play the recall game, Over and over--but I make it fun, by acting like a goof-ball. I play the recall game outside on chairs, so they get to leap up onto a chair or log (which they love), and part of the fun of the game is trembling with excitement on their logs, waiting for me to give them the wonderful recall command, which is their chance to run like mad, jump onto their big log, and get a hunk of meat.

Then keep the long line on them, but drop it (and tie a knot in the end so you can step on it). Then play the recall game 50 more times, sometimes with the line in your hand, sometimes with it on the ground, where you can step on it.

Then play the recall games 50 more times, sometimes with the line on her, sometimes with it off, but always alternating in random patterns so she can't predict when she'll have the line on and when she want. Mix it up, keep it going fast and fun and unpredictable and filled with chase games, jumping, releases to go chase a bunny, etc etc.

And when you want to go inside and end the game, don't use your recall command. Walk up and step on her line.

And think seriously about starting over with a new command. I used "here" when I realized Vanya had gotten into the habit of sometimes ignoring my recall command. Vanya has never had the chance to ignore my "here" command, since I always back it up with a long line (or a tone on his e-collar). And since he thinks the vast majority of time a recall means a wonderful game is about to begin, he usually rans back to me as fast as he can, wagging his tail, thrilled to play this cool game."

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Brina Blue
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Postby Brina Blue » Mon May 11, 2009 1:42 am

Stormi wrote:Chances are, when you trained in your obedience class, it was in a classroom setting as opposed to outdoors, correct? Think of allll the discrations outside has to offer to compete with your call... smells, sights, play... LOTS of stuff. You may need to take a few steps back in his training. "Come" indoors does not equate to "come" outdoors, so he may need a little help. Start like you did in class with some high value treats. Go out into the yard and call him from a very short distance. Give him some fanfare if need be to get his attention, and praise like mad when he comes to you. With a little of this kind of practice, he'll get the idea in no time.


Thats what I've been noticing myself. All the things that the girls do great in the house, aren't so great out of the house, or at other people's houses. So it seems that the pups are very specific in their correlations of their surrounds and the direction being given?

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Kingsgurl
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Postby Kingsgurl » Mon May 11, 2009 2:12 am

Your competing against two things when you move to a more exciting venue, like outdoors or a friends house. You are competing against distractions, and you are also competing against the fact that dogs don't really generalize well. Once a dog has a firm grasp of what is being asked (meaning is 100% on sit, for example) you move on to up the ante and ask for that behavior, on cue, in a slightly more challenging enviornment. Proofing a behaviour can take longer if you inadvertantly up the stakes too quickly, thinking the dog 'knows what I want' when really the dog knows what you want in only one context or set of circumstances.

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Jazzy
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Postby Jazzy » Mon May 11, 2009 5:04 am

Check out my recent thread; and the original thread it links to; just to put things in context as far as how long some of this work can take; and all the variables involved.

http://www.pitbullforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=119781


In V's case; she's almost 3; and has been in a training class at least 1 time/week since she was 12 weeks old. But we still hit a snag; I don't think in her case it was a matter of generalization; but more competing reinforcers...and Tiva's advice was very helpful. I had to learn to make coming to me more enticing than staying out and sniffing.

Btw; I don't know what your personal beliefs are, but I do not at all buy in to the school of thought that "if a dog respects you it will do as you say". I tend to go with the learning theorists and the likes of Jean Donaldson who believe that dogs are basically going to engage in whatever behavior is most rewarding. (My experience with the recall issue certainly seems to support that.)

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Amie
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Postby Amie » Mon May 11, 2009 5:37 am

The different command can help a lot if you're feeling hopeless. Somewhere around here is video of Oscar being his typically ADD self in an agility class. I took him off leash, he took off to explore the arena (which is used for horses and other animals, so smells exciting!)

He's generally got a lovely solid recall, but I don't compete with horse poop and agility equipment, and he just wasn't even twitching an ear at me as I yelled "oscar, COME" across the room.

What finally worked (because my dog is a true dork) was using his favorite nickname.

Imagine the glee of my classmates who were watching me clearly have no control over my pit bull when I said "Doodlebug!" and he stopped what he was doing and immediately wiggled over to me.

IamNicki
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Postby IamNicki » Mon May 11, 2009 1:49 pm

Great advice here. I think I am going to try this. Tyson is the same way... I just can't compete with the distractions we find outside sometimes.

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Finnigan
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Postby Finnigan » Tue May 12, 2009 9:10 am

In any situation where I'm going to want a dog "in training-learning recall" stage, the long line stays on. On in the yard, on hiking trails, everywhere.

I practice all the time, everyhwere. I use backward motions that entice the pup/dog to pursue me. I use tons of rewards. I try to first get the dog's attention.

I do not use the word if I don't think the pup/dog will respond. Don't want a bad habit to imprint while trying to imprint only the one desired one. (instead, I just go retrieve the dog)

If I find myself in a situation with no physical backup, and a pup/dog is bouncing away from me "hahahaha" I ask myself why I put myself in this situation.

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Brina Blue
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Postby Brina Blue » Tue May 12, 2009 12:54 pm

I also found that asking a question tended to get better results than commanding them to return with "come".

Today I went to a big empty park behind my house and worked recalls and indirectly having the maintain a closer distance from me.

I sat in the middle of a pavilion, and let all three dogs offleash. My adult is already trained so he comes when I call him. The pups would follow him around for the most part, when I first called them all back, one of my pups bolted back and got her treat. The other pup followed a close second with my adult last (he doesn't run back--he walks).

After that my one pup that was first kept coming back on her own to get her treat. Followed by the other dogs as well. I let them wander off farther, called them back, same thing. I let them wander off even farther where I had to whistle to get their attention -- again, same scenario -- that one pup basically does a zommie with her butt tucked aaaallll the way back to me.

So each dog is different too. One runs full out, the other trots back and the other walks back. As long as they come back, that's all I care about.

Making it fun and being in a GREAT mood and acting goofy does wonders, btw.


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