OFFICIAL e-collar debate thread

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mommy2kane
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Re: OFFICIAL e-collar debate thread

Postby mommy2kane » Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:53 pm

Think about it. You would want to build them up, positive training.

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Re: OFFICIAL e-collar debate thread

Postby starrlamia » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:24 pm

arlene2010 wrote:
Red wrote:
arlene2010 wrote: they aren't putting you second by ignoring your command that they very well know they heard the first time? i don't buy it. i think it's all about the money really, to cause people to run to trainers and pay out ass loads of money to correct it.why do scientists and doctors say a certain pill will cure whatever you have, and then a year later have 12 chronic side effects? so you'll come back to spend money on the next best thing they have out there. sure the simple act of being aggressive isn't, but the fact that a leash is for control, a tool for humans when establishing dominance. when a dog knows thats what it's for and literally blowing off your commands and guiding of that leash. that's where it comes in.


Good.Lord. You are not making much sense, please read around the forum for some information.


how is that not making sense? it's telling both sides. the worldly [human side] which is mainly for money, making money, and as much money as they can no matter what bullshizzle they have to tell. and the then world of animal side. that relies on raw nature, and instincts to get what it wants and needs no matter what. if the ears perk when you give a cammand and the dog deosn't follow threw it IS ignoring you. regardless of the threshold BS, you are being ignored and thats that. and too many owners tolerate it, and wonder why it takes about a year to correct a behavior. roflmao but i will take a look at some other things on here, because theres no such thing as too much knowledge.

what's not making sense is for someone to put 2 cents into a convo that adds nothing to the value of it. or is even a questionable or doubt-able statement to debate with.

so, when you were 6 years old and went into toys r us you didnt get so excited you didnt always listen to your parents?
Dogs arent looking to dominate you, or take over your life or your house. A dog who ignores your commands is either A- not solidly trained on the command or 2- overthreshold, threshold is a phenomenon that transcends species, there comes a point where there is to much stimuli to learn, it's science actually. Read the links Stormi posted, and read any posts stormi or red have made.

oh and besides cesar millan and TV personalities, behaviourists dont really make a ton of money.

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Re: OFFICIAL e-collar debate thread

Postby Amie » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:50 pm

starrlamia wrote:oh and besides cesar millan and TV personalities, behaviourists dont really make a ton of money.


Behaviorists don't really make a ton of money. TV Personalities do. Cesar is one, but not the other.

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Re: OFFICIAL e-collar debate thread

Postby TahsSunny » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:51 pm

mommy2kane wrote:Think about it. You would want to build them up, positive training.


A, I see what your saying. Took me 30minutes to get it though (I'm not that stupid, been drinking a lot). Having a fearful dog, a new experience for me.. But that's who she is though I don't know why she was like that at 8 weeks when her siblings came out fine. Course I get the odd, lol. I love her though.

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Re: OFFICIAL e-collar debate thread

Postby TahsSunny » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:52 pm

Sorry for rambling, just realized that

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Re: OFFICIAL e-collar debate thread

Postby starrlamia » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:53 pm

Amie wrote:
starrlamia wrote:oh and besides cesar millan and TV personalities, behaviourists dont really make a ton of money.


Behaviorists don't really make a ton of money. TV Personalities do. Cesar is one, but not the other.

i realize that but most people think of cesar and tv personalities as behaviourists and as a reason to think that actual behaviourists and trainers make a lot of money.

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Re: OFFICIAL e-collar debate thread

Postby mtlu » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:35 pm

arlene2010 wrote:... and a quick shock is simple too. it doesn't analyze the dog and then shock. i agree you should understand appropriate times to use it, like with any and all other methods.

Have you ever placed a shock collar on yourself? If not, you should try it sometime. I had a chance to try one thanks to Red, who is not opposed to "correcting" humans :tongue:

All kidding aside, I held the shock collar with the two prongs pushed into the palm of my hand (to replicate the effect of how the prongs sit when worn on a collar). The collar she has has variable voltage settings and a "nick" setting and a continuous setting. At low settings on "nick," my fingers twitched involuntarily due to the electricity interrupting/overriding the signals to the nerve receptors in my palm. This temporary jolt of electricity meant that for that brief fraction of a second, I did not have control over what my fingers could or couldn't do.

At a medium voltage setting, I tried to hold onto to the collar while Red had it on continuous setting. I don't think I was able to hold on for more than a second as the burning sensation from the two prongs against my skin became overwhelming in addition to the spread of lack of muscle control in my body as the electricity spread. Thankfully, it wasn't strapped onto my hand and I could drop it.

Consider for a moment how a very brief surge of electricity interrupts the normal flow of information to and from the nerves; causing involuntary movements of extremities and loss of muscle control – and think about how the expectation is that a dog will "obey" when given an electrical shock that affects his/her muscle control – I'm not even going to go into pain response since that will only "complicate" things. Just think about that for a while...

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Re: OFFICIAL e-collar debate thread

Postby AllisonPitbullLvr » Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:48 am

I've never considered using an e collar for these reasons mtlu. How heartbreaking it is that we feel it's ok to shock our dogs.

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Re: OFFICIAL e-collar debate thread

Postby lilangel » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:54 pm

Shock? But they don't shock their dogs... it is now called a "tickle"

wanna tickle wittle doggie woggie? a wittle itty-bitty coochie-cooo??...

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Re: OFFICIAL e-collar debate thread

Postby Dresden » Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:25 pm

this isn't to start anything but I wanted to say I'm officially pro e collar, it saved my dogs life. I have always been willing to teach on the subject of use and why not as a last resort or correction but never thought I would fork out nearly 200$ for MY DOG!

severe small dog aggression within a house of six dogs, two of which are shih tzu's, was slightly hellish as far as separating. I also didn't believe in it. after one attack I swore the next would be euthanasia as she went after another dog inbetween the little guys. no blood on anyone but enough upset I knew better. after training she was better but the small dogs gve her tunnel vision.

I used the collar( shocking my own neck up to the highest voltage first), and I will tell you it's not a shock/sting but a nerve shock. my arms jerked,body jumped but it was a wake up call not hurtful. I moved on to using it with her and all basic training and now they sleep together. we are not 100% trusting but the quality of everyones life was improved and she only used it for two weeks total.

I think anything keeping a dog from death row that doesn't hurt them is worth a try.

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Re: OFFICIAL e-collar debate thread

Postby starrlamia » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:44 pm

$200? i pay more then that every year for vet checkups. If 200 is too much to spend on your pet when they need it then there are bigger issues... we paid 500 for a behaviourist and id spend it again in heartbeat.

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Re: OFFICIAL e-collar debate thread

Postby Curly_07 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:53 pm

starrlamia wrote:$200? i pay more then that every year for vet checkups. If 200 is too much to spend on your pet when they need it then there are bigger issues... we paid 500 for a behaviourist and id spend it again in heartbeat.


:thumbsup: Exactly! I spend atleast $200/month on my 2 girls, not including their annual vetting. I would never use an e-collar. I prefer positive reinforcements, not my dogs doing things or acting a certain way because they are affraid of me. Why spend that money on something like that when you could use it for positive training/trainers to help your dog?

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Re: OFFICIAL e-collar debate thread

Postby Red » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:27 pm

Dresden wrote:severe small dog aggression within a house of six dogs, two of which are shih tzu's, was slightly hellish as far as separating. I also didn't believe in it. after one attack I swore the next would be euthanasia as she went after another dog inbetween the little guys. no blood on anyone but enough upset I knew better. after training she was better but the small dogs gve her tunnel vision.


How about some management and less dogs if you don't believe in separation? What kind of collar do you have if you "shocked your own neck up to the highest voltage" and thought it was just a "wake up call"? Wanting 6 dogs to sleep together is nowhere close to be a valid reason to use an electric collar on a companion animal.

Curly_07 wrote:Why spend that money on something like that when you could use it for positive training/trainers to help your dog?


I'd like to add that some behaviors do not completely disappear with either positive training/behavior modification, nor with punishment. What is wise to do, regardless the issue, is management.People who electrically stimulate dogs to make them sleep close to the other get a good wake up call when things happen and they do not have an electric collar on the dog. A highly trained GSD that belong to someone I know in the training world just killed the household cat last week. Dog has a lot on obedience on him and the owner did not want to work in other ways (e-collar fancier and user) so the collar was used for cat issues as well, from the moment the dog got into the house. The dog has a strong prey drive, which sure helps when he trains for Sch. Cat is dead, owner is acting like she is not to be blamed for anything and the dog will probably have a hell of a life since there still is another cat around.

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Re: OFFICIAL e-collar debate thread

Postby starrlamia » Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:32 pm

Red wrote:
Dresden wrote:severe small dog aggression within a house of six dogs, two of which are shih tzu's, was slightly hellish as far as separating. I also didn't believe in it. after one attack I swore the next would be euthanasia as she went after another dog inbetween the little guys. no blood on anyone but enough upset I knew better. after training she was better but the small dogs gve her tunnel vision.


whoa wait, your pit bull is dog aggressive and you would euth for that? You seriously need to rethink your current living situation. Again, it's like throwing a bunch of 6 years old in the room and expecting them to get along 24/7.

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Re: OFFICIAL e-collar debate thread

Postby Curly_07 » Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:35 am

Red I agree that management is very important. My point was that I'd exhaust all other avenues positively(positive training, trainers, behaviorist, management) and would never think of using physical corrections such as an e-collar.

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