Recall? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

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Rossignol
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Recall? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

Postby Rossignol » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:00 pm

So, I have an English Pointer. I've only been able to take her on practice hunts, and have had her in a training field a number of times, like alot. The training field is several acres fenced, which is perfect because her recall isnt.

I'm having a hard time moving on to other areas of training because of it. I have other dogs, and begin them all the same way, either with a training whistle or just whistle myself, when we feed them. If need be, I put all the food, even raw, in the pocket of my training jacket and they only eat when they respond accordingly to the whistle. Its rather Pavlovian, I know, but it works. At least with the other dogs. They come runnin no matter what theyre doin. But my bull headed pointer doesnt. It works when she is on a line, and sometimes in the back yard, and sometimes in the training field, but most of the time, noooooo...

Well, as spring approaches, much needed cleanup and repairs begin to happen. We had her in the back yard and while I was mending fences, the kids were picking up branches and cleaning up stuff we hadnt seen since before the snow began. She was all kinds of excited and just wanted to get to the kids to play, so she scaled the fence in a second and was out. She ran past the kids to say hi and was gone and out of sight after that. Up the creek, across the creek, into yards not ours, weaving in and out of house... I ran inside to grab the field whistle so she would hear me. The kids heard it 2 blocks away as they tailed her, but it was useless. She wasnt comin back easy. They said she was runnin accross our rural road and into oncoming traffic. I was resigned to the possibility she might have been hit by a car, but really didnt want to put a full metal jacket in her head.

Folks. I'm at a loss here. She hunts every critter in the woods, not just birds and I cant turn her loose to round up some dinner if I cant trust her. I appreciate any advice. I have not used a shock collar to this point, mbut I think its in the works. I have known of some pointers to eat up the ground and cover miles. I'm not young enough to keep up with this pup!

Thanks.

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jamielvsaustin
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Re: Recall? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

Postby jamielvsaustin » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:35 pm

Wouldn't it make sense to change your reward?

You don't get to decide what it is-the dog does (sorry).

Are there toys she is especially interested in? Perhaps for her it's praise? Maybe it's you singing and dancing for her (kidding).

I don't do what you do (field work) but if I did, I'd try to find something else that she is interested in to reward her for her recall.

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chelsea00133
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Re: Recall? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

Postby chelsea00133 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:49 pm

Really Reliable Recall is an GREAT DVD by Leslie Nelson, about teaching recall. She teaches a fool proof method of teaching an "everyday" recall, and an emergency recall. There is a section in it on the more independant dogs/breeds, which seems like what you are dealing with.

I would start with a new cue ( I use a whistle for my emergency recall, I prefer it to using voice. ) and using her favorite food & toys in the house, start pairing the recall word(or whistle) to the food. Once you start working outside, make it as least distracting as possible, and after every recall, give her the cue to "go play" (or whatever your release word is) It sounds like she's a dog who is much more interested in the world rather than whatever food or toys you have. Make it a game, you recall, she comes back and gets a reward, and make it very clear that you are releasing her to do what she wants again. NOT recalling her then giving her a food or toy reward and then not allowing her to go off again, you want to basically teach recalling= freedom to go play again.

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Re: Recall? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

Postby Stormi » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:53 pm

chelsea00133 wrote: I use a whistle for my emergency recall, I prefer it to using voice.


Be sure its a phsyical dog whistle or toy whistle and not you whistling. In the case of a real emergency which is generally full of panic and adrenaline, whistling with our own lips can prove rather difficult if not impossible.

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chelsea00133
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Re: Recall? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

Postby chelsea00133 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:01 pm

Stormi wrote:
chelsea00133 wrote: I use a whistle for my emergency recall, I prefer it to using voice.


Be sure its a phsyical dog whistle or toy whistle and not you whistling. In the case of a real emergency which is generally full of panic and adrenaline, whistling with our own lips can prove rather difficult if not impossible.


Yes, I use an actual whistle. It's a "dog whistle". I like it more than using a regular whistle, because even though it is not totally silent (you can still hear a whistle, it's just not loud) it is very clear to the dog. Which makes it easier to practice, so I can blow the whistle to practice recall on walks and not get the whole neighborhood's attention lol

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Rossignol
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Re: Recall? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

Postby Rossignol » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:29 pm

Well, I'll add a little background.

Shes nuts about food! She is very food driven normally. She also loves to fetch and will do so for hours at a time. I have a training dummy I put quail wings on and she loves it. Its funny actually how delicately she pics up. Not a full mouth bite like a bulldog, but she'll carefully grasp it with just the front teeth! Excellent soft mouth bird dog.

Anyway, back on track, We train on a long lead/check cord. I use the field whistle coupled with "Here!" she returns, she gets some raw chicken or the like, then I pat her on the head and say "ok" to release her. Shes got this down pat. I'll throw the training dummy and tell her to get it, literally I point at it and say "Get It!" She gets it, I say "Here!" She brings it back and puts it in my hand. She gets a treat and looks at me till I say "ok" and pat her on the head again. As soon as I pat her on the head and say "ok" she knows she can run hard! If I dont do anything for a few minutes, she comes and checks in.

After doin well on the check cord or long line for a while and being real consistent, we work in the back yard. I dont even take her out of the back yard to the training field until shes at least 90% on her recall.

Thats when she starts goin down hill. I can have her workin in the traing field, and her recall will be more like 50%, so we keep goin, repeat the same exercises and she eventually falls apart like goin native. I've seen her flush birds in the training field, but I cant even work on her holding a point if she wont recall.

Anyway, when things go badly, we back it down to the basics. I feel like that cowboy that rode up on his horse and asked if anyone has seen his white dog. It was found later. About 12 miles away.

So, I understand what youre asking and saying about using a different reward or toy. We have just play time too. I dont work her hours on end, training is like 20 min at a time. She really does understand the whistle as "get to me and get food". If I put her on a leash, it may as well be fishing line.

Its just this recall thing has been a stumbling block over and over again. So I could try a different reward, but I dont know what to go to other than food and the training dummy, both she loves! For a bird dog, the retrieve is the reward at the end of the point. She LOVES retrieving! So that is often a reward...

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Re: Recall? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

Postby kaytenmags » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:12 am

Rossignol wrote:After doin well on the check cord or long line for a while and being real consistent, we work in the back yard. I dont even take her out of the back yard to the training field until shes at least 90% on her recall.

Thats when she starts goin down hill. I can have her workin in the traing field, and her recall will be more like 50%, so we keep goin, repeat the same exercises and she eventually falls apart like goin native. I've seen her flush birds in the training field, but I cant even work on her holding a point if she wont recall.

sounds like you're on the right track.
quick question tho, sounds like you work with her on the long line until she's getting good, and then you take her to the training field and she falls apart (?) do you use the long line at the training field? changing locations and expecting her to recall off leash may be too much for her. i know my dog becomes selectively deaf when we're somewhere different! lol

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Rossignol
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Re: Recall? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

Postby Rossignol » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:41 pm

.
kaytenmags wrote:
Rossignol wrote:After doin well on the check cord or long line for a while and being real consistent, we work in the back yard. I dont even take her out of the back yard to the training field until shes at least 90% on her recall.

Thats when she starts goin down hill. I can have her workin in the traing field, and her recall will be more like 50%, so we keep goin, repeat the same exercises and she eventually falls apart like goin native. I've seen her flush birds in the training field, but I cant even work on her holding a point if she wont recall.

sounds like you're on the right track.
quick question tho, sounds like you work with her on the long line until she's getting good, and then you take her to the training field and she falls apart (?) do you use the long line at the training field? changing locations and expecting her to recall off leash may be too much for her. i know my dog becomes selectively deaf when we're somewhere different! lol


You know, thats a good point .

I will often leave a check cord on her, but not hold on to it. I could keep it in hand and run through the exercises with it on before turning her loose.

Oh, and another piece of info. At the training field, she isnt even that interested in fetching and retrieving.

When we practice here at home, I may look like a complete dork, but I put my orange vest on and everything, even carry a pistol. I do the same at the training field and tell her its time to work. I try to keep it as consistent as possible.


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