Good age for the invisible fence/shock collar?

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tiva
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Re: Good age for the invisible fence/shock collar?

Postby tiva » Thu May 05, 2011 8:26 pm

I hate invisible fences, for all the reasons others have indicated. But if you have a dog who is jumping over a regular fence, I think it's reasonable to do one of several things:
a. Add a fence topper that leans inward, so the dog can't jump the fence. These can be made very cheaply with chicken wire, but they do look a bit scraggly.
b. add coyote roller. Much nicer looking, much pricier.
c. add a hot wire to the top (and slightly inside) of the fence.

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Re: Good age for the invisible fence/shock collar?

Postby DogNerd » Sat May 07, 2011 2:58 pm

This is a sincere question because I know next to nothing about either: why is a hot wire ok with some folks while an invisible fence is not? Isn't it the same concept - dog gets zapped if they try to cross? Wouldn't, by the same logic, a dog be willing to cross a hot wire just as much as an invisible fence if they were motivated enough? I am having trouble wrapping my brain around why an invisible fence inside a real fence is considered worse than a hot wire inside a fence.

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Re: Good age for the invisible fence/shock collar?

Postby BabyReba » Sat May 07, 2011 7:00 pm

i was actually wondering the same thing, but reluctant to post because this is an issue that people get so hot about ...

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Re: Good age for the invisible fence/shock collar?

Postby starrlamia » Sat May 07, 2011 9:36 pm

DogNerd wrote:This is a sincere question because I know next to nothing about either: why is a hot wire ok with some folks while an invisible fence is not? Isn't it the same concept - dog gets zapped if they try to cross? Wouldn't, by the same logic, a dog be willing to cross a hot wire just as much as an invisible fence if they were motivated enough? I am having trouble wrapping my brain around why an invisible fence inside a real fence is considered worse than a hot wire inside a fence.

good question.

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BransensMom
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Re: Good age for the invisible fence/shock collar?

Postby BransensMom » Sat May 07, 2011 9:48 pm

That is a good question.

I wouldn't use either.
I'd rely on a chain-spot and/or secure yard, as I do now.
Bransen has never really seemed like he wanted to get out of the yard, but not taking ANY chances!

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Re: Good age for the invisible fence/shock collar?

Postby GoingPostal » Sat May 07, 2011 10:41 pm

My understanding is a hot wire is a lot stronger and very few dogs will cross it, plus on a fence it's probably a lot clearer where the correction is than an invisible fence where the dog might think the correction is for something else entirely, most people with them don't bother to train or use them correctly and don't have flags up. Also usually with invisible fencing there is no actual barrier to stop other things from coming in, more risk of failure with battery collars, etc. I bought the setup for hotwire for my jumper but wasn't convinced I could place it where Nero would hit it on his way over and I really don't trust a shock collar to stop him, I prefer management, he stays on a leash and this summer I plan to make a chainspot so he can be out there without me attached to him.

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Re: Good age for the invisible fence/shock collar?

Postby mommy2kane » Sun May 08, 2011 5:29 pm

GoingPostal wrote:My understanding is a hot wire is a lot stronger and very few dogs will cross it, plus on a fence it's probably a lot clearer where the correction is than an invisible fence where the dog might think the correction is for something else entirely, most people with them don't bother to train or use them correctly and don't have flags up. Also usually with invisible fencing there is no actual barrier to stop other things from coming in, more risk of failure with battery collars, etc.


I think I pretty much agree with all of this. I wouldn't trust an invisible fence with any of my guys, because I know there are certain things that would entice them to blow right through. I have a 6 foot privacy fence, but some of my dogs can still clear it with ease. No one is generally in the yard -- loose -- without some sort of supervision. I have outdoor kennels with tops ... and if another dog is running loose in the yard, someone is usually out there. BUT, I have thought about hotwire for some of the dogs who will jump up at/on the fence at times.

So, I don't necessarily have a problem with the stim the fence or hotwire gives. I just wouldn't trust the invisible fence.

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Re: Good age for the invisible fence/shock collar?

Postby HersheyBear » Tue May 10, 2011 8:18 pm

I don't trust invisible fences. There are people I know of who have lost their dogs due to the fence. One was a smaller dog (pug) that ran through to chase a squirrel and wound up being hit and killed by a car.

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Re: Good age for the invisible fence/shock collar?

Postby mypuppyJack » Tue May 10, 2011 9:33 pm

I had one installed by dogwatch years ago. At the time I thought it was the greatest thing ever. I was lucky because nothing ever happened, dogs never challenged it, but I stopped using it and supervise the pups outside.

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Re: Good age for the invisible fence/shock collar?

Postby Stormi » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:14 pm

I thought I shared this link already, but aparently not. It details out the fallout and behavioral side effects of resorting to shocking dogs.

http://www.dogsportmagazine.com/wp-cont ... 0Shock.pdf

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Re: Good age for the invisible fence/shock collar?

Postby MikeInTacoma » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:38 pm

DogNerd wrote:This is a sincere question because I know next to nothing about either: why is a hot wire ok with some folks while an invisible fence is not? Isn't it the same concept - dog gets zapped if they try to cross? Wouldn't, by the same logic, a dog be willing to cross a hot wire just as much as an invisible fence if they were motivated enough? I am having trouble wrapping my brain around why an invisible fence inside a real fence is considered worse than a hot wire inside a fence.

It's the same concept in general -- trying to escape brings a shock -- but the details of implementation differ. And, the details matter.

A hot wire along the top of the fence generally probably isn't as distressing as an invisible fence within a privacy fence, in my amateur opinion. With a hotwire-on-top setup, the dog only gets shocked when touching the wire on top of the fence. Further, the dog gets shocked on the body part that touched the fence, with great immediacy and consistency. The consequence of the dog's behavior is clear. (What I'm not sure about is if the dog can clear the fence without touching the wire. In that case, a hot wire on top wouldn't do anything useful.)

In contrast, with a radio shock collar, the dog gets the shock on the neck (rather than the offending paw), which has no obvious connection to the tangible fence. And, if I correctly understand how the invisible fence systems work, there will be a zone near the privacy fence where the dog starts hearing warning tones or getting lower-intensity shocks. I think this may sometimes affect the immediacy and consistency of the consequence, so the dog may not as clearly understand how to avoid the shocks.

I am not familiar with the "static shock" systems --
laurxj wrote:[...] the shock emitted from their collars is a static shock, the fence on my horses paddocks are an electric shock, huge difference ive been zapped by both several times. [...]
-- I'm guessing that they do not have the warning noises and the lower intensity shocks?


I think that, if you're going to use an invisible fence anyway, then the best way to do it is in conjunction with a privacy fence. A good privacy fence will prevent most critters from pestering the confined dog. And it's only fair to give the dog an obvious visual cue where the "do not cross" line is -- I think those little flags that come with invisible fences are horribly insufficient, especially when they're spaced too far apart.

And, I can think of good reasons to use an invisible fence + privacy fence. A well-run invisible fence should deter digging escapes when a privacy fence alone, or a privacy fence with coyote rollers, may not.

As to the original question, "what age," I don't really know. I guess that the OP should consult a veterinarian. :dunno: If you believe that using that kind of collar is not inherently cruel, and you make sure the shock is of the right intensity (not too little, not to much... good luck calibrating that), and you make sure that the shock is obviously the consequence of getting too close to the fence -- then I suppose there's no clear reason why 6 months (to pull a number out of thin air) would be too young.


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