On a killing spree :(

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FBODGRL
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Re: On a killing spree :(

Postby FBODGRL » Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:52 pm

BrokenAquarian wrote:I'm against people walking their known Dog aggressive dogs anywhere in public. Unless it's on your private property or a friend's private property - you shouldn't bring your dog there.

Knowing that the dog is dangerous, but still feeling like you(anyone) have a right to potentially bring it into contact with the subject of it's aggression. Doesn't matter who's fault it's going to be in the end - it's still a very bad situation.One or both dogs may end up dead/severely maimed.

In your situation, I wouldn't be taking this dog out into public.
I'm thankful I've got a huge yard that provides large amounts of stimulation. All this crap people go through to walk their dogs is insane. Dealing with other people is crappy.



Sorry off topic, but you are saying if a dog is DA it should only be allowed on the owners property?

To the OP. I think unleashing the dog was a mistake. Unfortunately when this breed is involved they are usually blamed no matter what the circumstance.

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Re: On a killing spree :(

Postby BrokenAquarian » Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:54 pm

FBODGRL wrote:

Sorry off topic, but you are saying if a dog is DA it should only be allowed on the owners property?

Dogs that you know want to kill other dogs. Someone's secure property - not walking on a public street where other people have their dogs.
Unless it's securely muzzled, it should not be walked in public, where there are other dogs. If you know your dog is a dog maimer/killer - how is it responsible for you to bring it somewhere that other people's pets are likely to be(unless you're all on the same page)? It's not like you're the only person that's thought to bring your dog to that spot you're at. It's not like you don't know that your dog will be blamed and possibly killed for the breed that it is - even if the other dog was the first to bite.

It comes down to finding safe ways for a "publicly not safe dog" to get exercise and mental stimulation - without harming others and keeping your dog safe.

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Re: On a killing spree :(

Postby starrlamia » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:02 pm

BrokenAquarian wrote:
FBODGRL wrote:

Sorry off topic, but you are saying if a dog is DA it should only be allowed on the owners property?

Dogs that you know want to kill other dogs. Someone's secure property - not walking on a public street where other people have their dogs.
Unless it's securely muzzled, it should not be walked in public, where there are other dogs. If you know your dog is a dog maimer/killer - how is it responsible for you to bring it somewhere that other people's pets are likely to be(unless you're all on the same page)? It's not like you're the only person that's thought to bring your dog to that spot you're at. It's not like you don't know that your dog will be blamed and possibly killed for the breed that it is - even if the other dog was the first to bite.

It comes down to finding safe ways for a "publicly not safe dog" to get exercise and mental stimulation - without harming others and keeping your dog safe.


I think the issue here is not an aggressive dog but lack of training and handler management.
IE- if you have a DA dog, desensitize and train to be able to walk with little reaction to other dogs and ensure the handler will not be going close enough to dogs, near offleash dogs or be overpowered by their dog pulling. If you cant do any of those things, keep the dog in a fenced area without other dogs.

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Re: On a killing spree :(

Postby doglove » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:06 pm

I have to agree with BA on this. A dog this dangerous to other dogs has no business going in public without being securely muzzled and leashed if it's an absolute must that they need to go for a walk in a public place. Not only is it NOT FAIR to other dog owners who want to have a relaxing, non-violent walk with their pets, but it's NOT FAIR to the dangerous dog either. Can you imagine the stress and anxiety a dog like this would be going through, seeing enemies at every turn and freaking the F out at any given moment?

I'd much rather confine a dog to my property or drive out of my way to keep my dog and other dogs safe than to subject a dangerously aggressive dog to that kind of anxiety and frustration. It's entirely too easy to make a home-made treadmill, buy some work-to-eat toys, and scour the internet for information on mind bending games/training ideas to keep the dog fit and happy.

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Re: On a killing spree :(

Postby Enigma » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:22 pm

starrlamia wrote:IE- if you have a DA dog, desensitize and train to be able to walk with little reaction to other dogs
And to do that you HAVE TO go out in public where other dogs are. Obedience classes once or twice a week are not enough to desensitize a dog to other dogs.

I currently have a very DA foster, i live in an apartment, i don't have a fenced yard and i don't have a car - if i would i could drive him to places where there aren't many dogs. So yeah, i HAVE TO walk him out in public every day and my neighbourhood is like a huge dog park without a fence, many dogs and irresponsible owners, sadly. I walk my foster on a collar and a slightly modified head halter which gives me complete control over his head and muzzle and every time we see a dog i start redirecting his attention to me with treats. He's getting better, but that wouldn't be possible if i wouldn't take him out and work with him. He goes on regular walks, at least an hour or two every day.

Treadmills, work to eat toys and staying inside all the time is NOT a life for a dog, no way.

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Re: On a killing spree :(

Postby starrlamia » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:36 am

Enigma wrote:
starrlamia wrote:IE- if you have a DA dog, desensitize and train to be able to walk with little reaction to other dogs
And to do that you HAVE TO go out in public where other dogs are. Obedience classes once or twice a week are not enough to desensitize a dog to other dogs.

I currently have a very DA foster, i live in an apartment, i don't have a fenced yard and i don't have a car - if i would i could drive him to places where there aren't many dogs. So yeah, i HAVE TO walk him out in public every day and my neighbourhood is like a huge dog park without a fence, many dogs and irresponsible owners, sadly. I walk my foster on a collar and a slightly modified head halter which gives me complete control over his head and muzzle and every time we see a dog i start redirecting his attention to me with treats. He's getting better, but that wouldn't be possible if i wouldn't take him out and work with him. He goes on regular walks, at least an hour or two every day.

Treadmills, work to eat toys and staying inside all the time is NOT a life for a dog, no way.

I didn't mention classes so don't know where that came from. Obviously you wouldn't take a very day dog to a class. I'm talking about serious desensitization with a behaviourist. People on this board have done it with their dogs.

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Re: On a killing spree :(

Postby Enigma » Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:20 am

starrlamia wrote:I didn't mention classes so don't know where that came from. Obviously you wouldn't take a very day dog to a class. I'm talking about serious desensitization with a behaviourist. People on this board have done it with their dogs.
Yes, i've seen. You are very lucky you have good certified behaviourists where you live. We don't so doing it yourself or taking a dog to a regular obedience class is the only two options we have here. That's why i mentioned obedience classes in the first place :thumbsup:

And saying taking a DA dog (on a leash and under control) out in public is not fair to other dog owners who want to have a relaxing walk with their dogs is kinda ridiculous.. There's absolutely no way anything can happen if all dogs are leashend or have a recall good enough that they don't bother other dogs even if they are offleashed. The only thing not fair is taking out your annoying dog who doesn't have a decent recall, letting him offleash in public and letting him harass other dogs, now that's not fair to anybody. I can't remember when was the last time i had a relaxing walk with my two dog tolerant dogs without offleashed dogs bothering us.

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Re: On a killing spree :(

Postby rgyoung777 » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:21 am

starrlamia wrote:I didn't mention classes so don't know where that came from. Obviously you wouldn't take a very day dog to a class. I'm talking about serious desensitization with a behaviourist. People on this board have done it with their dogs.


Enigma was agreeing with your post and adding to what you wrote--you know that, right? She isn't arguing with you; you're both objecting/presenting similar rebuttals to the same post.

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Re: On a killing spree :(

Postby starrlamia » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:08 pm

rgyoung777 wrote:
starrlamia wrote:I didn't mention classes so don't know where that came from. Obviously you wouldn't take a very day dog to a class. I'm talking about serious desensitization with a behaviourist. People on this board have done it with their dogs.


Enigma was agreeing with your post and adding to what you wrote--you know that, right? She isn't arguing with you; you're both objecting/presenting similar rebuttals to the same post.

I was just pointing out that you wouldnt wanna do classes with a very DA dog, I was using my new phone to type which is incredibly akward (i am cell phone retarded) so i didnt mean to make it out as an arguement lol

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Re: On a killing spree :(

Postby Red » Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:01 pm

BrokenAquarian wrote:
FBODGRL wrote:

Sorry off topic, but you are saying if a dog is DA it should only be allowed on the owners property?

Dogs that you know want to kill other dogs. .


Ah well, that is a good chunk of dogs that need to be locked in someone's yard then.Here is one, my Hotwired Jack, pulled from adoption because of how serious his dog to dog aggression was:





Looks like a dog that is fairly in control and happy to be there, yes? He is the same dog that would have either jump that fence to get a hold of one of the dogs standing on the side, or grabbing and working the chain link to the point to loose a couple teeth in order to find access to the dogs. Never mind having the GSD in motion by him and the dog vocalization heard. Never mind attempting to stop him.

random dog event:

Image

public parks, doing some nose work in there (dogs were around):

Image

Image

Streets:

Image

Just a few examples of places where some think that dogs like him should not be. While agree to it big time, if said dogs belong to clueless owners, some of them also belong to people who should at least attempt to modify some of these behaviors, within reason and with all the safety precautions needed. They might need to hire someone to help them and it is certainly not something that the average joe is able to commit to, safely.There can't be improvement unless the dog is worked with, in those same environments, in small steps.

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Re: On a killing spree :(

Postby BabyReba » Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:13 pm

Goodness, poor Doc's head would explode if he had to stay in our secured yard all the time. He's definitely not good with other dogs, but it's not like I toss him out at the unwitting public like a hand grenade. I choose where to take him carefully ... and we do go places where other dogs might be, I just make sure he's not in a place where people let their dogs roam off leash.

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Re: On a killing spree :(

Postby FBODGRL » Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:46 pm

Thank you both...I was starting to think I was loosing my mind a little and that any of us who have DA or reactive dogs should just keep them in a bubble.

I haven't been able to actually take Khan out walking for quite some time because of the medical issues with my arm and hand, but when I was physically able we did walk.

He does go to the groomer and vet where there are other dogs and I make sure to keep him as safe as possible.

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Re: On a killing spree :(

Postby starrlamia » Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:49 pm

FBODGRL wrote:Thank you both...I was starting to think I was loosing my mind a little and that any of us who have DA or reactive dogs should just keep them in a bubble.


:goodpost:
responsible management, though I do agree that there are a lot of people out there who should not take their DA dogs in public (such as the OP), but that doesnt mean everyone is irresponsible.

I love Jack <3

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Re: On a killing spree :(

Postby Nichole » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:37 am

Violet was so dog reactive she couldn't see, hear, or smell another dog without turning into a possessed gremlin. Walking on the street required a stiff drink (for me) to relax after such a nerve wracking event. It was seriously bad. So bad...but if I hadn't been allowed to work with my dog in public places she wouldn't be able to be where she is today: competing in rally competitions (with other dogs walking all around her), going to obedience classes surrounded by other dogs, and walking by strange dogs without even a whimper.

This is a separate issue from the original post which I feel was a well meaning but inexperienced handler making the wrong decisions on how to handle a dog reactive dog.

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Re: On a killing spree :(

Postby si senor » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:08 am

Hi guy''s
ut
Thanks for a the reply's ,....

i bought a muzzle for the dog ,even do its not my own dog ,..but since iam responsible for it ,this two weeks i bought it and i bought a some kinda break up stick for my own dog in case of ......

anyways merriterrier thats a nice topic to read ....verry handy .

Thanks for all the reply's guys
:headbang:


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