Dog language, a guide/article/whatever that I wrote
the Article..
Very interesting article which I'm hoping you be able to help me. My Doc who is neutered, he's about 17months old within the past week, out of the blue started to sniffed my 5year old son very intensely until the other night my son was rolling around on the floor and Doc started to sniffed him again very intensely I saw his body getting stiff his tail up and his hackles up I thought he was ready to jump on my boy, my husband grabed Doc by the neck and remove him. I'm still shaken from that I don't know what would of happen if my husband didn't grab him. I just don't get it Doc has never ever show any aggression towards anyone specially with my kids .I know there's got be something -that sniffing is just not normal I don't know what to do any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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MikeInTacoma
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Stiff posture, tail up, hackles up -- based on that body language, I think your husband was right to remove Doc quickly (though hopefully not angrily -- don't want Doc to have unpleasant associations with your son). I don't know what's up with the sniffing, or why Doc would perceive your boy as a threat or prey or whatever. But this sounds like something you should resolve.DOCSPOP wrote:Very interesting article which I'm hoping you be able to help me. My Doc who is neutered, he's about 17months old within the past week, out of the blue started to sniffed my 5year old son very intensely until the other night my son was rolling around on the floor and Doc started to sniffed him again very intensely I saw his body getting stiff his tail up and his hackles up I thought he was ready to jump on my boy, my husband grabed Doc by the neck and remove him. I'm still shaken from that I don't know what would of happen if my husband didn't grab him. I just don't get it Doc has never ever show any aggression towards anyone specially with my kids .I know there's got be something -that sniffing is just not normal I don't know what to do any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
It seems like people often don't notice there's new material in the "sticky" threads, so I suggest posting a new thread here, with a descriptive title about Doc's behavior; that way, the resident experts will be more likely to weigh in. Also, I think it's not too soon to consult a good dog behaviorist -- for some things, the internet is not good enough. Probably you can get a recommendation for a reliable professional near you from Red or Stormi.
Re: Dog language, a guide/article/whatever that I wrote
Wow thanks for taking the time to write this up. That was very informative. I'm going to be a first time bully owner and this will be very useful to me especially since we plan on having more than one dog hopefully! This forum is amazing! 
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pitbulliest
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Re: Dog language, a guide/article/whatever that I wrote
Great article and nice pics. Although, I just have a very quick comment on a sentence:
"But remember that dogs are simple animals, they don't have a logical sense, they don't comprehend that one thin relates to another the way we do, and they live in the moment."
After reading a load of books on dog behavior and psychology by authors with different perspectives, ranging from vets, to top trainers, to some average joe who decided to write a book, I've come to the conclusion that we just don't know enough about dogs yet to make too many conclusions to begin with. How do we know just HOW simple (or complex for that matter) a dog's psychology really is? I do believe dogs have logic, to a certain extent, and I also believe that dog's can comprehend. Dogs have memories, dogs have dreams, dogs can form a conclusion based on the materials they have to work with, depending on the situation, and of course, the dog. Each dog is different, from breed to breed, and more importantly, from dog to dog. There are smart labs, but there are also pretty dim labs. We cannot compare a dog's intelligence to our own, and then conclude that dogs are simple animals who, 'live in the moment'. I think we just don't give them enough credit, and most importantly, just don't know enough about them yet, IMO.
"But remember that dogs are simple animals, they don't have a logical sense, they don't comprehend that one thin relates to another the way we do, and they live in the moment."
After reading a load of books on dog behavior and psychology by authors with different perspectives, ranging from vets, to top trainers, to some average joe who decided to write a book, I've come to the conclusion that we just don't know enough about dogs yet to make too many conclusions to begin with. How do we know just HOW simple (or complex for that matter) a dog's psychology really is? I do believe dogs have logic, to a certain extent, and I also believe that dog's can comprehend. Dogs have memories, dogs have dreams, dogs can form a conclusion based on the materials they have to work with, depending on the situation, and of course, the dog. Each dog is different, from breed to breed, and more importantly, from dog to dog. There are smart labs, but there are also pretty dim labs. We cannot compare a dog's intelligence to our own, and then conclude that dogs are simple animals who, 'live in the moment'. I think we just don't give them enough credit, and most importantly, just don't know enough about them yet, IMO.
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MikeInTacoma
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Re: Dog language, a guide/article/whatever that I wrote
5-minute video on dog body language by "Zoom Room" (which I think is a chain of doggy daycares or something, not sure).
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MikeInTacoma
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Re: Dog language, a guide/article/whatever that I wrote
7-part series of excerpts from Jean Donaldson's seminar on dog body language:
http://www.youtube.com/user/PerfectPawsStudios#grid/user/E5836A5CBED30189
http://www.youtube.com/user/PerfectPawsStudios#grid/user/E5836A5CBED30189
Re: Dog language, a guide/article/whatever that I wrote
Really Great article but Ill have to come back and read the rest . Pictures were great too.
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blackeyedblonde
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Re: Dog language, a guide/article/whatever that I wrote
I am really, really glad I read that.
Re: Dog language, a guide/article/whatever that I wrote
Amazing read! I took about a full page of notes. I will live with this information forever and appreciate it.
One question I have for you.
My puppy Max at 11 weeks does not seem to submit fully. He goes on his back while playing with dogs, he tucks hes hail, pulls back the ears, but at the same time fights back from the ground. Even if im just petting him on the belly he wants to bite, not me just anything at all. Does this have anything to do with him teething or whats the problem?
Thank you.
One question I have for you.
My puppy Max at 11 weeks does not seem to submit fully. He goes on his back while playing with dogs, he tucks hes hail, pulls back the ears, but at the same time fights back from the ground. Even if im just petting him on the belly he wants to bite, not me just anything at all. Does this have anything to do with him teething or whats the problem?
Thank you.
Re: Dog language, a guide/article/whatever that I wrote
No problem, just typical puppy behavior.
You might want to check the Mouthy Pup sticky in this forum.
You might want to check the Mouthy Pup sticky in this forum.
Re: Dog language, a guide/article/whatever that I wrote
A few comments (opinions) on the Dog Language guide.
One should bear in mind that the type and intensity of a particular signal may vary with the particular dog. Watching hundreds of dogs being introduced to play groups you can see both the variation and the learning process that takes place, especially with those just learning to be social.
On direct eye contact, never assume. Remember that dogs have co-evolved with humans and many will modify and adjust as they gain experience. Thus, there are many dogs who see a direct stare from a human as only an invitation to lick the person's nose. With any new dogs I meet, I let him tell me how he's going to interpret things like that.
I feel you made a very good point often missed elsewhere. Few training books mention this, but it should always be taken into account when training a dog. And don't forget the other side of this coin. How many times have your heard somebody say:
Or,
On anthropomorphism, you may have gone just a little too far. There are a number of notions that dogs do express as people do, just not to nearly the same degree. Just because a dog won't work towards a goal that's years away like a person, that doesn't mean they always live in the moment. Hope, for instance, is a future projection and extinction studies on training dogs have shown its high value which means it does exist.
Add to that the very large difference between various dogs (and various people, for that matter).
Ah, how very much we humans want simple guides to a dog's body language. But the reader should remember those guides are just a start, and you need to interpret the intensity and specialization from the particular dog's response to a stimulus. Your section on hackles, for instance. I feel it is generally correct, but there are exceptions. And the same applies to all the items. Not really a criticism of your article, but a qualification for people reading it. I find far too many people seem to insist on simple rules that always apply the same way.
On dominant dogs, nicely stated! At the shelters, we make much use of them in play groups. I liked your Husky/Black-dog example.
Nice write-up on the alpha roll! A slight correction here that relates to a different context, where a dog may physically force another dog on their back as part of a play sequence. Often nothing to do with submission, and I agree with what you stated.
On Sound and dog growling, it's fun to watch new volunteers running the dog play groups. A few dogs vocalize quite a bit and what would be seriously warning sounds from some of the other dogs mean little here. Initially, you can tell the difference from the rest of their body language. Over time, the human ear learns enough discrimination to go by only the sound, keying on very small differences.
On your Touch section, I feel the paw-on-the-sholder is contextual and not always a fight preamble. Often I've seen one dog stiff and hard when throwing a paw over another's shoulder. The other dog then signals back and this signal together with the originator's response may cause them to break apart, start to fight, or often to begin a play session. This last case is more commonly found during a short period when a dog is first learning play socialization with others.
On your pictures, I was pleasantly surprised. I think you did a great job there. Even after all the comments I threw in here, I think you did very well.
One should bear in mind that the type and intensity of a particular signal may vary with the particular dog. Watching hundreds of dogs being introduced to play groups you can see both the variation and the learning process that takes place, especially with those just learning to be social.
On direct eye contact, never assume. Remember that dogs have co-evolved with humans and many will modify and adjust as they gain experience. Thus, there are many dogs who see a direct stare from a human as only an invitation to lick the person's nose. With any new dogs I meet, I let him tell me how he's going to interpret things like that.
Your own dog interprets your body signals much more than you think. Many think that a dogs obedience is about the fact that we have taught them certain words: "sit" ,"down", "stay" etc. But the words are just a little part of obedience.
I feel you made a very good point often missed elsewhere. Few training books mention this, but it should always be taken into account when training a dog. And don't forget the other side of this coin. How many times have your heard somebody say:
I never said a thing, but somehow my dog knew that I was going to (or wanted him to) do X.
Or,
I never said a thing, but he must know he did wrong because he looks so guilty.
On anthropomorphism, you may have gone just a little too far. There are a number of notions that dogs do express as people do, just not to nearly the same degree. Just because a dog won't work towards a goal that's years away like a person, that doesn't mean they always live in the moment. Hope, for instance, is a future projection and extinction studies on training dogs have shown its high value which means it does exist.
Add to that the very large difference between various dogs (and various people, for that matter).
Ah, how very much we humans want simple guides to a dog's body language. But the reader should remember those guides are just a start, and you need to interpret the intensity and specialization from the particular dog's response to a stimulus. Your section on hackles, for instance. I feel it is generally correct, but there are exceptions. And the same applies to all the items. Not really a criticism of your article, but a qualification for people reading it. I find far too many people seem to insist on simple rules that always apply the same way.
On dominant dogs, nicely stated! At the shelters, we make much use of them in play groups. I liked your Husky/Black-dog example.
Nice write-up on the alpha roll! A slight correction here that relates to a different context, where a dog may physically force another dog on their back as part of a play sequence. Often nothing to do with submission, and I agree with what you stated.
On Sound and dog growling, it's fun to watch new volunteers running the dog play groups. A few dogs vocalize quite a bit and what would be seriously warning sounds from some of the other dogs mean little here. Initially, you can tell the difference from the rest of their body language. Over time, the human ear learns enough discrimination to go by only the sound, keying on very small differences.
On your Touch section, I feel the paw-on-the-sholder is contextual and not always a fight preamble. Often I've seen one dog stiff and hard when throwing a paw over another's shoulder. The other dog then signals back and this signal together with the originator's response may cause them to break apart, start to fight, or often to begin a play session. This last case is more commonly found during a short period when a dog is first learning play socialization with others.
On your pictures, I was pleasantly surprised. I think you did a great job there. Even after all the comments I threw in here, I think you did very well.
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